About This Forum

This snuff bottle community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert collectors. Topics are intended to cover all aspects and types of bottle collecting. To include trials, tribulations, identifying, researching, and much more.

Among other things, donations help keep the forum free from Google type advertisements, and also make it possible to purchases additional photo hosting MB space.

Forum Bottle in the Spotlight

Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
May 27, 2024, 07:29:44 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Contact Login Register  

The Holy Grail of photographing IPBs ?!

Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: The Holy Grail of photographing IPBs ?!  (Read 1124 times)
Peter Bentley 彭达理
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2600



« on: May 02, 2012, 07:44:37 am »

Hi All

Don't  breathe  yet.....  but  I think I  finally  found the   Holy  Grail  of  how  to  photograph  IPBs  !

 Grin    Grin    Grin   Grin   Grin   Grin   Grin   Grin   Grin   Grin

The  3 x   main  problems  with  photographing  IPBs   are :   

a)  reflections  from the     glass   from every possible  angle  ( especially  with    dark- coloured  bottles  where  even the  paper  on  which the bottle  stands   reflects  unless the  paper  is  matt  black  ) )

b)  unless  with bright   front  lighting    the   true  colours   do not  show  up  in the  pic,   similar  to seen  in  real  life / light

c)  need  to  create  that   superb    white - foreground  / grey/   black -background    effect 

Last week I saw   at  Jiang Hongliang's  home a   superb  photobox   set-up

See pics  attached   

I experimented  at  home  and  managed to   reproduce the  same   effect  using a  much  smaller  box  (    width/  height  ,  but it needs  the same   depth  - about    2   feet  long)

The   two  keys   are:

A)   The  lighting  (from   top) is  not   directly  above the  bottle  bit  about  6  inches  in front  of the  bottle

B)   There is a  baffle  ( about  1  -2  inches   deep) which  blocks  the  lighting    from  shining   back into the  box

       THAT IS  THE   KEY  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am  still  experimenting,  but   the  initial   results  look really   good.

 I  always  use  the same   3  x    bottles    for  test   photos  which   stress the   extremes  of  IPB  photography  : one  is  very  dark  - almost  black  ( thus  subject to   extreme   reflections  from    whatever  paper the  bottle  is  standing  on) , one  only  shows  its  true  life  with intense   front  light  ( thus  also    causing  extreme   reflections)  and the    3rd  is  in between. 

So far  I think  I  have   almost  "one  size  fits  all"  technique   Cheesy

More news   anon  as  my  tests  progress

Cheers   Peter








* The box when lit.jpg (286.47 KB, 683x1024 - viewed 34 times.)

* The box when lit.jpg (286.47 KB, 683x1024 - viewed 21 times.)

* The lighting and the BAFFLE.jpg (57.45 KB, 1024x683 - viewed 27 times.)

* The overall background effect.jpg (53.8 KB, 1024x683 - viewed 28 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Peter Bentley 彭达理
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2600



« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2012, 07:45:26 am »

I missed  out  a  pic

Here  it  is

Peter


* The box.jpg (73.27 KB, 1024x683 - viewed 42 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Steven
Global Moderator / Forum Detective
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4101



« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2012, 08:03:48 am »

Great experience, Peter,

Would love to see one of the picture taken by using the technique Wink

Steven
Report Spam   Logged

Peter Bentley 彭达理
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2600



« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2012, 08:19:28 am »

Hi  Steven

Here  is  an  example  - the   FANTASTIC  bottle  I  bought   from Jiang  Hongliang    the  other  weekend

Cheers   Peter


* CC Jiang Hongliang @ Hengshui (A).jpg (247.98 KB, 707x1024 - viewed 52 times.)

* CC Jiang Hongliang @ Hengshui (B).jpg (247.29 KB, 738x1024 - viewed 36 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 11358


Test


WWW
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2012, 11:03:14 am »

Great experiment Peter..

I really think you need a lot more light.. Either overhead, or from both sides.. With you camera on macro setting.

Just seems like your the bottle could or should really pop with those beautiful landscape scenes..
Report Spam   Logged

"Experience Each Experience To The Fullest To Obtain The Most Growth"

Snuff Bottle Journal
Steven
Global Moderator / Forum Detective
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4101



« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 11:21:55 am »

Hi Peter,

Great way to set  up the studio, and I agree with the George, you might need to work  on the lighting a bit more, I think If you need to do something professional, you might need some light modifier which like soft box instead of just using spot lights.

Here is a tutorial about the light modifiers,



Steven
Report Spam   Logged

Peter Bentley 彭达理
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2600



« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2012, 12:45:30 pm »

Hi Guys

All  /  every  input  /  www-link  welcome

I  have  tried   everything  I  ever   found  out  in the  past  ( and  my  PA  at the  office  is  doing  an  advanced  degree  in    studio   photography  in her  spare  time, so  I have   used   her   MONSTER   camera  )

I  even  consulted  Hugh Moss's   nephew  who  does  all the  pics  for  Bonhams, and  I  managed  to  "out-pic"    even   him  for  my  one  and  only  Bloch bottle  (  WXS  Bloch   # 664)  by way  of   reducing  reflections  and    to  bring  out the  true   colours  to  photo  compared  to real life  viewing , which is   THE  true  Holy Grail

Macro  mode  ? Hey  Man  !  That's a  given   for  every  IPB  pic  . OF COURSE  MACRO !

Same  same    soft  box / light  modifiers   over  my  professional    5000  deg C   light  box  lights    : tried   them  all

THE  No 1  problem  with  IPBs  is FRONT  FACE   REFLECTIONS  .

Solve  that  and    you  solve   everything

But  ( deep  breath)  I  think that  I finally found the  solution  , and  at the  same  time  how  to get that   white -to-black   effect  inside a   space  even   smaller  than a  small  grocery box 

Wait  for more  postings

Cheers   Peter
Report Spam   Logged

Peter Bentley 彭达理
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2600



« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2012, 01:11:00 pm »

To  Repeat

The  objective  is  to   photo  a   IPB  so that it  looks  exactly  the  same  as  in real life

In real life  one   focuses  on the   small parts  of the bottle  that one is  interested  in  and  mentally   one   disregards  the   rest  of the  bottle    as  one  holds  the  bottle  close  to one's  eye   
 
That's why  when  I  see a  really  good     IP  bottle  I spend  over  an hour  to examine  it  in every possible  lighting   condition  :  spotlight, sunlight,  back light .  magnifying   glass  ....  etc 

To  capture  ALL that  magic  into  one  photo  is  certainly  impossible   : one  can only   discuss   degrees  (  %)  of  accuracy 

Before   last weekend  in Hengshui  I  think  I was  at the  80%  level ( and  Hugh Moss  was  still  at  70%   for  IPBs ) 

Now  I think I have   got  to almost  90% 

Remember  also  that   for  IPBs  the   subject  matter  is  paramount.  Portraits  are  easy  .  Kids  stuff to  photo
But  when  it  gets  to  complex  pics  with multi-colours, the   true  "value" of the  bottle  is  only apparent  in  multi-lighting   situations. 

I have  some    amazing landscape   bottles  by  Fan Dianji :  one  shows  pure   "gold"  in back light .  Another, in one  corner,  shows   pure  "copper"   . I also  have a   goldfish bottle   where the     fish  do really  shine  like   GOLD  in the    correct  lighting .    These  kind  of  details  are  certainly  impossible to   photograph

Just  to be  able  to  capture   at least  90% of the  essence  of  a bottle  in one  photo  is  my  ambition, and I think I  finally  found the   secret  :  it's all in the     front  position  of the   top light  and the   baffle 

Welcome  all  replies, and  in  due  course  I  will  issue  pics  and  diagrams  of the  set-up,  which  anyone  can  reproduce  using     simple   cardboard boxes 

Cheers  Peter

PS:  I have  visited  many   MIPB  artist  homes :  most  of them  had  some  kind  of  primitive   shoe box  photo   set  up .  But  Jiang Hongliang   was  the first ever  artist   I met at  home  who  had   something     truly   professional

Report Spam   Logged

rpfstoneman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2346



« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2012, 09:36:09 pm »


Peter,

Thanks for the ideas on the setup and lighting.   Iím currently going though the same trial and error process, but not quite to the same depth/construction of your setup.  Illustrating what you have done and the resultant pics is of great help.  Thank you for sharing on this topic, Charll
Report Spam   Logged

Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

Peter Bentley 彭达理
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2600



« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2012, 11:14:38 pm »

Hi Charll

Thanks  for the  input

I  will   do more  trials  at  home  ( where  I have   very    limited   space ,  so  no  grocery-box    sized   set-ups  )    and  keep  you  all  informed

The  key  seems  to be

a) the    from -  top  lighting     ahead  of the  bottle  ( about   6  inches) 

b)  the  baffle  to   prevent  the  lighting  shining  to the  back  of the  box 

I  always   -  in the  past  -  went  for  top-down   lighting  +  some   auxiliary   front  lighting    to bring out  the   colours.  I never  thought  before   to   bring  the  top-down  lighting     AHEAD of the   bottle ,  nor the   baffle   idea,  both of  which seem to  work  wonders

LOT's  more  to  discuss

Cheers,  Peter

« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 05:43:47 am by Peter Bentley 彭达理 » Report Spam   Logged

Peter Bentley 彭达理
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2600



« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2017, 05:36:20 am »

Hi  George,

Just to  respond to a  point  you made  long  ago...

You wrote :

_________________

I really think you need a lot more light.. Either overhead, or from both sides.. With you camera on macro setting.

Just seems like your the bottle could or should really pop with those beautiful landscape scenes..


______________

In fact, the  pics  I  attached  of the  Jiang Hongliang bottle were almost  exactly as the bottle  appears  in real  life  (it's a  rather dull, sober painted  bottle)

Cheers
Peter
Report Spam   Logged

Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal