Mask and ring handle discussion?

[forestman]

Hi All,

The reason for the question mark at the end of the subject of this post is to see if anyone else felt raising a (hopefully) ongoing discussion about mask and ring handles would be a good idea, I also wanted to start another one on bases and footrims of various types and qualities.

I have been absent from the forum for a few years as I was busy with other things and only bought a very few bottles in those years before recently buying 4 from the same auction. That auction had many agate bottles on offer, a few had been bought from Bonhams fairly recently, 2 had come from Y.F Yang but most had no recorded provenance and from online pictures could have been modern, seemingly identical raised oval footrims on those with and without provenance not helping online viewing.

A very good root amber bottle I got from this auction caused me to look more at the mask and ring handles on my other bottles and I caught up with a discussion here on overlay glass bottles where I recall a possibility of raising this topic was put forward.

Having said all this I haven't had my set up for photographing bottles out for years and have recently displayed some of my collection in box frames which may not cope with me opening the frames up to take bottles out very well so there will be a delay in me being able to post photographs to illustrate points I want to make or query.

Any thoughts or interest for this?

Regards,

Adrian.

 

[rpfstoneman]

Adrian,

I was the one that brought up the investigative topic of looking at and photo cataloging mask ring handles following a comment by John O'Hara to one of Giovanni's recent posts.  It would seem to me that someone has had to look into this as a way of dating bottles, especially glass bottles.  If there is a referenced study out there, it would be nice to find it.  Otherwise I thought I would look into this during my some of my down time this winter.

I reached out to Clare Chu to see if she recalls any such work.  There does not appear to be any substantial work in this area at present.   

Charll

[forestman]

Hi Charl,

Sorry if I hadn't noted it was you that raised this, I also recall it may have been Joey who mentioned that longer rings on glass overlays may point to a later date that may have prompted you to raise it, hopefully I'm not over simplifying a point he made.

Hopefully I can start posting some photographs and looking at other photographed examples to try and get the ball rolling on it.

I don't really have a large number of bottles with mask and ring handles but the root amber bottle I recently bought is very well worked on the mask and ring handles as well as the footrim. On 2 macaroni agate and one white jade bottle the insides of the rings are not incised as deep as on the outside of the rings whereas the ones on the amber bottle are. I had sort of accepted that it was normal to expect the insides of the ring handles on these types of bottles (as opposed to glass bottles) for this to be the case even though their dating of manufacture may have varied. Perhaps the root amber bottle is just finished to a higher level or was easier to work!

Clearly pictures will help illustrate the point I am raising but it lead me to start questioning and looking to try and see differences I may not have picked up on before which I guess is a good thing. I assume various comments about ring and mask handles have been made, spread out over many posts here so trying to get any information in one place for anyone to refer to it should be helpfull.

Regards,

Adrian.

[rpfstoneman]

Adrian,

Regarding foot rims and bases on stone bottles, and other characteristics in the evaluation and dating of stone bottles, Tom Lyall has produced a very nice diagnostic E-Booklet.  Drop Tom a line (email) to inquire on getting a copy.

Charll 

[George]

I did find a nice starting point for whom ever decides to compile some kind of all-in-one easy to follow chart or pictorial reference.  Such a task is above my pay grade. Or perhaps his research is an acceptable enough reference for us to go by.

Hugh Moss's, "The Art of the Chinese Snuff Bottle", starting at the very last paragraph on page 580 through 581 dives into research using examples of many mediums from within both volumes detailing workshops and styles.

[forestman]

Charll, thank you, I will do so and had thought Tom was putting something together along those lines when I was previously posting.

Hi George, I don't have "The Art of the Chinese Snuff Bottle" but am currently working through "A Treasury of Chinese Snuff Bottles" and finding various references to mask and ring handles so will gather all I find and try and give a summary.

I was hoping for more than I have currently found that relates to what I consider the common way of rendering mask and ring handles which occurs on various bottles I have and have seen. As "The Treasury of Chinese Snuff Bottles" deals with the Bloch collection it contains many Imperial bottles and the way mask and ring handles were rendered/carved for Imperial wares was clearly different to more mainstream bottles and was much more varied probably reflecting the interest in the higher levels of the Imperial Court in the history of mask and ring handles.

Regards,

Adrian.

[George]

I was hoping for more than I have currently found that relates to what I consider the common way of rendering mask and ring handles which occurs on various bottles I have and have seen.

A shame you don't have the books. I can't promise when but will give a whirl towards putting something visual together from "The Art of the Chinese Snuff Bottle".

[forestman]

Having recently added 2 more stone bottles to my collection that had mask and ring handles it was clear that there was a common design used (although it varied more over my glass bottles) which could cover quite a wide period in relation to the age of the bottles. When there are so many options for the way the base of a bottle can be finished or for the shape of bottles it seemed strange to have this design of mask and ring handles being consistent and used for so long and across varied qualities of bottles.

The Qianlong Emperor had a particular interest in the vast number of ancient vessels at court and had designs of them reproduced in printed editions in a catalogue produced in 1751 with supplements in 1753 and mask and ring handles were a feature of these vessels. It lead to mask and ring handles being popular on Qing dynasty wares, including on snuff bottles. Going through the Treasury of Chinese Snuff Bottles there are varied one off designs that occur more on jade bottles but there seems to have been a typical design that then occurs much more often on jades and across stone and quartz bottles and it is the same design that occurs on bottles I have and I give 3 pictures below that illustrate it.

The first and second pictures are bottles I have that aren't on display, 2nd tier but photograph well. The third picture is from the Treasury books and is given as dated 1740-1850, Official School, Probably Imperial.

I will add more to this topic when I can but some may want to add comment to the start of this topic.

[forestman]

Ooops, the middle picture was supposed to be this one. The one I did post was of the variations that can occur that I was going to talk about after doing a bit more research.

[forestman]

Adding more from the first 2 Treasury books, the 1st on Jades and the 2nd on Quartz.

Of 187 Jade bottles there are 13 which have mask and ring handles. 5 of these are by the Master of the Rocks and are not of the typical type I have shown pictures of, whilst the lower face part of the mask can be similar there are long drooping ears instead of the, normally, 6 curls of what is presumably the beasts mane. The rings also vary from a slighly broader oval to circular and also elongated by differing amounts.

The remaining 8 bottles vary in many details, some are of the typical type with one having 8 curls not the normal 6, some have no curls and ears, ears and 2 curls as examples. Circular rings are thought to be preferred by Court and 4 have circular rings.

Of close to 200 Quartz bottles there are 9 with mask and ring handles and 8 of these are the typical type with the ring varying in shape and size as on some Jade bottles. The one non typical one also has smaller rings compared to the mask with the ring being more oval width wise and is thought to be earlier.

   

[forestman]

I've now read up on the glass bottles in the Treasury books. My collection shows more mask and ring handles on my glass bottles and this is true of the Treasury bottles. 7.5% of Jade bottles have mask and ring handles, 4.7% for Quartz and 13.4% for glass.

What are considered to be earlier examples have round rings. The masks seem to be plainer, not having such noticable curls or eyebrows. The masks can be more oval width wise (wider than tall) because there is less emphasis on the curls of the mane which add height. The rings tend to be narrower than the mask and the mask can be narrower lower down at the mouth. Because of this I find the shape less appealing than the more typical way of carving the mask and ring handles.

Over time it seems things developed to become the more typical design which is far more common then any other. They are most common with 6 curls of the mane but can have 4 or 8. The eyebrows became more defined and tended to extend to become the lower curls on either side with curls on the left side turning clockwise and on the right anti clockwise. On very few examples the curls turn the opposite way. Rings could still be round but also oval both width wise or height wise, sometimes also more C shaped. The rings became wider, mainly to the same width of the mask.

The more elongated oval rings are considered a later feature.There is what seems a logical thought that the elongated rings was something that would have suited some bottles more asthetically and as the rings on snuff bottles served no actual use then it didn't matter if they were made longer. Whilst rings varied in how elongated they were the Li Junting bottles had very elongated rings and one is dated to 1821. These are what are now considered the Yangzhou style and most have very elongated rings (if they have mask and ring handles).

[forestman]

Whilst mask and ring handles may have started to be seen on wares produced for the Court it seems there use wasn't just exclusively for the Court and I have seen them on bottles of very low quality and badly rendered in their carving.

Here are 5 more examples from bottles I have, the 3 on red overlay bottles are variations of the typical type, the root amber bottle is more typical and well carved and the macaroni agate bottle has the inner part of the ring not carved as deep as the outer which I have on another macaroni agate which I feel is older, also on a moss agte, a crystal and a jade bottle.

Anyone else with examples or comments? It seems very quiet on here of late.

 

[bambooforrest]

Adrian, Henric Adey and I were just discussing that some more research should be done on the mask handles as Charll suggested. My rock crystal bottle with it's handle that I consider highly Imperial....John

[forestman]

Hi John,

A beautiful piece of rock crystal and very nice and typical mask and ring handles. Having concentrated so much on mask and ring handles I can say yours are larger than normal in relation to the bottle, I only found one other example of this in the Treasury books.

Regards, Adrian.

[bambooforrest]

Another rock crystal bottle [55mm] with well carved "hairy handles".

[rpfstoneman]

All,

In order to start mask comparisons and to eventually see if there are any style trends over time, it will help to give an age range for bottles shown if you have it.  John's last post above is a good example.  This is a unique mask design for which I do not recall seeing one like it before.  New bottle or old bottle?  That said, if it could be tied to an reign or given time period it would aid in the development of a diagnostic photo table.   Just a thought.

Charll   

[bambooforrest]

Charll, I agree with your thinking. I would date the previous bottle 1800 to 1850. This next ice crystal example [1820 to 1880] has a more low relief standard looking handle.