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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
May 29, 2024, 12:18:55 am
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Unadorned Agate Snuff Bottles

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Author Topic: Unadorned Agate Snuff Bottles  (Read 2805 times)
bambooforrest
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« Reply #100 on: August 26, 2023, 07:07:33 am »

Another new find [57mm], possibly a floater. Nice botryoidal pattern and a raised footrim.


* WIL AGA FLO1 (2).JPG (86.5 KB, 324x500 - viewed 10 times.)

* WIL AGA FLO2 (2).JPG (66.55 KB, 217x500 - viewed 7 times.)

* WIL AGA FLO3 (2).JPG (84.37 KB, 331x500 - viewed 10 times.)

* WIL AGA FLO4 (2).JPG (70.21 KB, 424x300 - viewed 8 times.)
« Last Edit: August 26, 2023, 07:17:13 am by bambooforrest » Report Spam   Logged

John O'Hara

Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #101 on: August 26, 2023, 07:37:44 am »

Dear John,

     While these finely crafted plain Chalcedony snuff bottles
used to be 'common', today they are less so.
Another wonderful example.
I'd date it to ca. 1780 - 1880.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

rpfstoneman
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« Reply #102 on: February 19, 2024, 12:19:25 am »


All, this is a recent acquisition from the Joan & Ted Dorf Collection of snuff bottles that came up for action in the Fall of 2022 and winter of 2024.

This is an exceptionally striking piece of stone where the natural abstract design is different on both sides.  One side has vibrant markings in different colors whilst the other has softer tones of brown seemingly radiating out from a central point.

           

Chalcedony/Agate Snuff Bottle:
Irregular pebble shaped chalcedony snuff bottle in ochre, red, brown, russet, and gray tones.  Well hollowed.  One side with natural globular formations of brown with orange filled fissures.  The other side smoothly carved to highlight a 'sunburst' agate formation.  Oval flat foot.  Stopper is a carved coral sprag set in a brass bezel with a nicely formed bamboo spoon.   
Height without the stopper is 5.72 cm by 5.05 cm in width, weight 66.0 g.  [WHR = 1.1579]

Period: ca. 1750-1860

Condition: Overall, very good condition.  Natural inclusions throughout.

Provenance: Oakridge Auction Gallery, Session 3: Chinese Snuff Bottles, 13 Jan 2024, Lot 527
                     From the Joan & Ted Dorf Collection in Maryland, no. 194
                     Sotheby Parke Bernet Inc., (PB Eighty-Four) New York, May 28, 1980, lot 158
                     David Dunkerley, Hong Kong

Just finished up the cataloging of the bottle and thought I would share.   Charll




* Dorf Agate2a.jpg (110.51 KB, 640x800 - viewed 12 times.)

* Dorf Agate1a.jpg (92.47 KB, 640x800 - viewed 10 times.)

* 527_6.jpg (74.52 KB, 880x880 - viewed 12 times.)

* 527_7.jpg (109.04 KB, 880x880 - viewed 11 times.)
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #103 on: February 19, 2024, 01:02:44 am »

Hi Charll

An unusual and nice bottle!

Congratulations!


Richard
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Richard from sunny Singapore
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« Reply #104 on: February 19, 2024, 06:56:46 am »

Incredible, by the pictures, they look two different bottles! Very nice.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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bambooforrest
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« Reply #105 on: February 19, 2024, 07:31:26 am »

Charll, I remember this striking bottle from the sale. Congratulations!
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« Reply #106 on: February 19, 2024, 10:29:32 am »


All, thanks for the comments.  This is my type of hardstone bottle!  This bottle came up at auction with Bonhams in fall of 2022.  The estimate was $4000 - $6000, and the reserve was set at the low estimate of $4000.  There was interest in the bottle during the Bonham sale, including myself, but the bids fell far short of the reserve and the bottle was 'Passed'. 

Just over a year later, the bottle came up in an Oakridge Auction Gallery sale with a new estimate of $1000 - $2000.  Again the low estimated was the reserve at $1000, and there was really no interest in the bottle, and I picked it at the minimum bid of the low estimate. 

If Bonhams would have accepted a bid lower than their set minimum estimate the owners would have seen bids approaching $2000 or more based on what I recall seeing during the Bonham sale.  I know I had a holding bid in with Bonhams of $1800 on this bottle to monitor the Dorf Collection sale, but was not willing to go to $4000 for the bottle.   Being patient prevailed!

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #107 on: February 19, 2024, 01:09:11 pm »

Dear Charll,

     David & Charlotte Dunkerley were very nice collectors whom I met in
Hong Kong on my first visit during my first ICSBS convention  [and my
late unlamented  'JAP' {Jewish American Princess} honeymoon! 2 1/2 months
of First Class travel and {mainly} 5 star Hotels, lots of shopping and touring,
and no sex! Roll Eyes Shocked Grin ].
They took me and my {then} bride Jenny out for a fish dinner so we could
keep Kosher, on Thursday evening, 26.October, 1978.
And on the Friday before the convention, 27.October, David took me to
YF Yang's {OBM} shop in Ocean Terminal from the Mandarin Oriental in Victoria
on Hong Kong Island [convention venue].
And Jenny, who wanted to buy photographic equipment, as well [and helped her
get very good prices, with YF's help].
It was also my first time on the Star Ferry, which I LOVED, then and ever since.

At YF's, I bought 7 bottles, and wanted to buy 15 more. YF allowed me to call
my Daddy {OBM} who in no uncertain terms refused to send me more funds
for snuff bottles! YF cushioned the hard blow by : 1. Giving me a plain white
Nephrite Jade snuff bottle as a 'lagniappe' [New Orleans term], and allowing
me to buy two more on credit!

An American woman collector [I'd not lie and call her a 'lady'] from the Society
was there as well. He offered her a free white Nephrite Jade as well, which she
refused. I got it [I was a bit 'bold'].

And David bought an Agate pebble bottle, with YF's typical coral stem stopper,
mounted in a twisted wire metal base. This bottle.
Bet you thought I'd never get to the point... Roll Eyes Shocked Wink
Best
Joey
« Last Edit: February 20, 2024, 05:17:24 pm by Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #108 on: February 19, 2024, 08:55:12 pm »


Joey,

Appreciated the lengthy story to get to the punch line.   Cheesy   Do you recall the year the bottle was purchased?   Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #109 on: February 20, 2024, 03:14:45 pm »

Many of these bottles have interesting stories and indeed this beautiful Agate bottle has one. Charll I am so happy you got this stunning bottle.   I remember it from the September 2022 Bonhams Catalog as Lot 54.

 I was very interested in Lot 53, the Silhouette Agate, in the same sale and on the same page in the catalog as your bottle. It has a story too, not as good as your story of the journey you took to get this beautiful Agate bottle and "the rest of the story" by master story teller Joey!!

My story begins... We really wanted a bottle of the Dorf's as they had been so kind to us when we started collecting snuff bottles. The bottle would remind us of their friendship. I asked Henric Adey to preview Lot 53 for me in NYC as he was going to preview some bottles for himself.  He did a nice job of checking it out and sent me many photos.  Day of the Auction,  I thought I had the high bid, but I did not. Someone else had the last bid. I was so sad.... but when I looked at the results for the sale, I saw that it had been passed.  (I usually do a telephone bid or get a trusted dealer to bid for me).  I called and inquired about the bottle. After a few days I was thrilled to get this bottle at a good price.  I think I a little bit better at internet bidding now!  LOL   
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« Reply #110 on: February 20, 2024, 03:45:01 pm »

Here is the picture of Lot 53 I referred to earlier. 


* 20240220_161552 (002).jpg (267.76 KB, 2040x1530 - viewed 12 times.)
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« Reply #111 on: February 20, 2024, 04:52:34 pm »


Jo,

I can see why you like that bottle!!!!  I do not to look hard at silhouette bottles for they all tend to be well beyond my price range.  I'm just hoping one day I can stumble upon a good one that is between $1000-$1500.  I too will call into the auction house at times when a bottle is "Passed" and have always been successful in acquiring the desired bottle.  Often, however, having to accept a counter offer.  Sometimes not, when I offer 70-80% of the minimum estimate. 

However, when Bonhams had a minimum estimate of $4000 on the bottle, there was no way I was going to pay that much.  The variegated agate is a great bottle, but I was questioning the purported age.  Not willing to paid a few thousand dollars for what could be a contemporary (20th century) stone bottle. 

Charll     
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #112 on: February 20, 2024, 05:14:08 pm »


Joey,

Appreciated the lengthy story to get to the punch line.   Cheesy   Do you recall the year the bottle was purchased?   Charll

Charll, Reread the lengthy story  Roll Eyes Shocked Grin
It was in October 1978, but I screwed up the day & date.
For some reason [possibly since for at least 20 years or so,
the convention starts on a Tuesday], I mixed up the days & dates.
Simchat Torah, the last day of the High Holy Day period, fell on Monday,
23.October.
The convention 'started' with registration on Saturday, 28.October, and
a banquet hosted by YF Yang OBM and CK Liang OBM, on Saturday night.

Because I was then strictly Orthodox, and could NOT register on my
Shabbat, Dorothy Shindle the longtime secretary of the ICSBS, registered us
on Friday, albeit slightly less than welcomingly.  
But the convention was really from Sunday morning, 29.October to Thursday,
2.November.
We [my ex-wife Jenny Waverman 'Silver' and I] arrived on Thursday 26.October,
early afternoon, after an 'interesting' 8 hour layover in Teheran Int. Airport.

We'd corresponded with the Dunkerleys, and they were expecting to collect us at the
Mandarin Hotel. But our travel agent was not used to scheduling accommodations in
the Far East [she screwed up with the timezone difference], and we had a booking at
the Mandarin in Hong Kong Central only from Friday, 27.October!

We discovered the SNAFU at the airport and went to an Accommodations Booking Desk
there, where we were able to book a 2 bedroom suite for US$200 at the Hong Kong
Furama Hilton, in 26 / out 27 October.
We called the Dunkerleys, and they came to meet us at the Furama Hilton.

It turned out that the restaurant they wanted to take us to was 5 minutes walk
from our hotel.
Friday morning, 27.October, 1978, David organised a company car to collect us
after we checked out from the Hilton, and drive us to the Mandarin,
and he'd called ahead and spoken to a friend to get us early checkin.
We arrived by 10:00am and were ensconced in our very luxurious room by 10:30am.

Then David escorted the two of us to the Star Ferry, a few minutes walk away.
And ushered us onto First Class. This cost HK$0.50 at the time, with
US$1.00 = HK$7.80. So less than 6 cents USD for First Class...
Instead of HK$0.30 [less than 4 US cents] for Standard Class...
David explained that there were pickpockets in Standard Class, since it was
much more crowded.
I've LOVED the Star Ferry ever since that first ride.
It's only about 6 minutes across Hong Kong Harbour from Central on Victoria
Island to Tsim Sha Tsui Station on the Kowloon [peninsula] side.

From the Star Ferry's Kowloon station, we walked about 10 minutes, and were
at YF Yang & Sons by 11:00am. But that was with David leading the way.
When I went away by myself and returned, it took me over 20 minutes to find the
shop! And I'd been in the Ocean Terminal the whole time!
And next door was the photography shop that both YF and David recommended.
It turned out that the young couple who worked there were related to YF,
So Jenny bought all her photography stuff there.

She had put aside US$3,000 for her gear, vs. US$7,500 for me to buy snuff bottles.
She felt this was fair since my side had given us 80% of the gifts, but I'd offered a
50/50 split. Jenny said that all she wanted was the photographic equipment.

In the end, Jenny only needed US$1,800 to get even more than she'd intended,
thanks to YF. And she bought me one of the 15 I'd put back, for which YF
charged her only US$500 [It was marked US$635], out of her spare cash.

So, Charll, your bottle was purchased by David Dunkerley from YF Yang & Sons,
Ocean Terminal, Tsim Sha Tsui, Kowloon on Friday, 27.October 1978.
Though I don't know when he paid for it.  I saw no funds change hands on that
day.
Best,
Joey
« Last Edit: February 20, 2024, 05:22:15 pm by Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 » Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #113 on: February 20, 2024, 05:23:59 pm »

Dear Jo & David,

    Congratulations on the shadow agate.
You guys call them 'silhouette agates' now?
'Shadow' is shorter and I can spell it...  Roll Eyes Shocked Grin
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #114 on: February 21, 2024, 12:31:28 am »


Joey,

I got so wrapped up in the story I completely overlook the date.  Cheesy  It's interesting that the bottle was put up for auction less than 2 years later in May 1980. 

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #115 on: February 21, 2024, 07:02:52 am »

Jo, great bottle! Joey, I wish I could remember details like you do.
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John O'Hara

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