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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
November 26, 2022, 05:08:20 pm
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Underglaze Blue and Iron Red Designs

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Author Topic: Underglaze Blue and Iron Red Designs  (Read 354 times)
bambooforrest
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« on: July 07, 2022, 08:00:07 am »

This first example was displayed at the Walters Museum for the ICSBS convention in 2018. It also has good provenance, Sotheby's N.Y. 3-17-1997 LOT #444 [86MM]. Nice painting of the dragon on a background of fu and shou characters.


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* IRON D4 (2).JPG (107.32 KB, 518x500 - viewed 7 times.)
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John O'Hara

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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2022, 02:16:47 pm »

Dear John,
I would kill for a bottle like that! Grin
This is by far my preferred one among those seen in this thread. What a fantastic bottle!
Thank you for sharing.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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rpfstoneman
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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2022, 09:53:19 pm »

John, here is my example in the same design.  Likely a later date than you bottle.

Underglaze Cobalt Blue and Overglaze Iron Red Dragon Snuff Bottle:
A tall cylindrical form bottle with an iron-red and black pupal furious looking enameled dragon over cobalt blue design on white porcelain body; with a convex lip, raised circular foot rim.  Bottle is painted as a continuous design of a five-clawed imperial dragon chasing a flaming pearl above an underglaze blue ground of the seal-script characters fu (‘happiness’) and shou (‘longevity’).  The narrow unglazed foot ring has an interior glazed base with a six character Guangxu mark in underglaze blue.  Thick brass alloy rope designed metal collar with a coral inset cabochon, no spoon.  Height is 7.8 cm without the stopper and is 2.5 cm wide at base. 

Period: 1875-1908 if of period.

Charll

Condition: Very good with just minor firing flaw across the face of the dragon.

Provenance:  Lot 275, Arts and Antiques, Sale -6-2014.10.16, by Eins Auction & Appraisal.

Similar Reference: Similar bottle to “Important Chinese Snuff Bottles, Sothey’s, Monday March 17, 1997, Lot 444, and the “The Marakovic Collection”, bottle I.282.


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« Last Edit: July 08, 2022, 12:59:07 am by rpfstoneman » Report Spam   Logged

Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

bambooforrest
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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2022, 07:14:50 am »

Giovanni, thanks for your kind words. Charll, I agree yours is later. Clare Chu dated the bottle 1820-1880, but Sotheby's dated the bottle Daoguang....John
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John O'Hara

Joey
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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2022, 02:42:46 pm »

Both bottles are very interesting.
Clare's dates are odd, since we know today that Jingdezhen was totally destroyed, and the inhabitants either taken away into slavery or murdered, by 1854/1855, and
by the Taiping criminals.
So I could see ca. 1820-1855 or  1865-1880.
Best,Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

bambooforrest
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2022, 08:19:24 am »

Joey, I think Clare was giving a broad range of dating knowing that there was no production for that 10 year period. I think my bottle would fall in the first period and Charll's possibly the second. This bottle is later but the detail on the scales is amazing [79mm]


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John O'Hara

bambooforrest
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« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2022, 08:35:43 am »

This next reverse painted example [75mm] shows the dragon up well on the blue background. There are numerous clouds in iron red and a white pearl.


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John O'Hara

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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2022, 12:25:14 pm »

Dear John,

   Another very interesting example.
Thank you for posting it.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2022, 11:24:30 am »

On this example the iron red goldfish are well painted, the underglaze blue has a nice color and the bottle is made out of very smooth porcelain [80mm]. Some wear to the goldfish.


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* TEN PI4 (2).JPG (123.03 KB, 552x500 - viewed 5 times.)
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John O'Hara

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« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2022, 01:56:17 pm »

Very well ainted indeed, dear John.
Wear on the iron red is normal.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2022, 01:54:02 am »

Dear John,
how would you date your five goldfish bottle? Anyone? I have some difficulties in dating it. To be precise: I DO NOT mean that it is a recent one!
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2022, 07:00:01 am »

Giovanni, I would say 1865 to 1900.
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John O'Hara

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« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2022, 01:07:09 am »

Dear John, all in all it was my thought too: second half of 19th century.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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bambooforrest
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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2022, 07:49:50 am »

The next example with the "100 boys" motif uses underglaze blue for the fence. Some wear to the boys faces [59mm]. A matching bottle in Sotheby's N.Y. 10-23-1997 lot #311 from the Gerry Mack Collection.


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John O'Hara

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« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2022, 02:34:47 pm »

Beautiful bottle, John.
Thank you for posting it.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2022, 09:45:55 pm »

Another beauty John !
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« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2022, 08:04:01 am »

Joey and George, thanks for your comments. The next bottle [60mm] also used the cobalt for the background design. Nice painting of the 5 cocks.


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« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2022, 05:48:19 am »

WOW!
Superbly painted Five Roosters!
I think the bottle is Daoguang, but the mark was blurry.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2022, 12:23:18 pm »

Joey, the mark is Qianlong but I believe your dating is correct. The next 2 are a bit of a puzzle [70mm]. They came from different auctions but both have similar tops and spoons. Both came with wood stands, there is no wear to the iron red. I have also seen a third one.


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John O'Hara

Joey
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« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2022, 03:10:24 am »

Dear John,

      They look very well painted, but 3 examples,
all with similar stoppers, spoons and stands ,
and without wear (or is there wear, but just not to the
overglaze iron red?), and all in the market at the same time,
Is suspicious.

   Having written that, in November 1988, in Sotheby’s NYC, two beautiful pale white jade flasks, each carved in very low relief with a wing front and reverse,
 and the head of the Phoenix to one side, came up for sale.

I knew that they were Kangxi Imperial Jade Workshops,
and ca. 1680-1710 (the period when the Kangxi Emperor was in control of Khotan, the primary  source of Nephrite Jade), having seen one in a Very important collection.
They sold for US$500 each, and I would have bought both, but a fellow ICSBS member,
a lady, asked me not to bid against her for the second one.

  It later turned out that there had been a set of 5 in private hands, and the owner
decided to sell.

  So, depending on the level of wear, I would be tempted to say that they are modern.
In the 1990s, some superbly done porcelain snuff bottles were produced in Jingdezhen.
Mr. Yang of blessed memory, warned me about them, and even sent me a full page article from a newspaper, the South China Morning Post I believe, about them.
The main characteristic was that they were very OTT (‘over the top’) in their design,
and did not ‘look’ authentic.
Best,
Joey

But it still seem
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