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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
December 04, 2022, 04:59:08 pm
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Blue and White Porcelain Snuff Bottle - No Base

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Author Topic: Blue and White Porcelain Snuff Bottle - No Base  (Read 127 times)
Boletus
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« on: May 21, 2022, 06:56:31 am »

Dear all,

How are you? I'ts been a long time since my last post on the forum.

I have recently aquired this B&W porcelain snuff bottle, coming from a large and fine italian collection.
I have never seen another example without foot or base, would you please share with me your thoughts about it?
The interior is unglazed, and if I understand that correctly it could indicate an earlier part of the 19th C, perhaps Jiaquing?

Your comments and suggestions would be really appreciated.

Thank you, cheers

Frank


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« Last Edit: May 21, 2022, 07:25:08 am by Boletus » Report Spam   Logged

Frank

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George
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2022, 02:55:50 am »

Hi Frank Smiley

When a porcelain piece like this shows such well defined facial features, I like to use Tommy Eklof's, "Dating Chinese Porcelain from Facial Features and Adornments". I am unable to match these facial features to any category which leaves me believing this may be 20th century.

I am looking forward to hearing what the experts think Smiley
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Boletus
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2022, 04:12:56 am »

Hi George,

Thanks for that.
The bottle presents (under magnifying glass) all the signs of wear, micro scratches, patina etc. of an old bottle.
Yet, as you say, it could well be a 20th C. example.
Let's wait for some more comments to find out what the general opinion about it is.

Thank you, cheers
Frank
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Frank
YT
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« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2022, 05:09:17 am »

Dear Frank,

I like this bottle especially how the base was done.
Beautiful and useful hidden nicely in the cloths sleeve.
Possibly made not for display and more for use.

Best to have the experts come out with the dating, my guess is late 19th, early 20th.

Cheers,
YT
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Boletus
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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2022, 10:47:45 am »

Dear YT,

Thank you for your comments, really appreciated.

It does seem like a well used example, and the idea of it being hidden nicely in the sleeves makes a lot of sense!
I understand that the way the faces are depicted is unusual, and perhaps your dating of late 19th, early 20th is probably correct. Let's wait for more comments, anyway thank you for your kind appreciation of the bottle.

Cheers

Frank
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Frank
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2022, 03:37:14 am »

Hi Frank

Based on the cartoonish expressions of the faces drawn, I would date this as a 20th-century piece.

The fact that it did not have a horizontal base but was used, it was probably carried in a pouch.

Just my two cents.

Regards.


Richard
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Richard from sunny Singapore
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Boletus
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2022, 03:49:17 am »

Thank you Richard, I guess that the general opinion points towards a 20th C piece.
I guess an early 20th C though (Republic)?

Cheers
Frank
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Frank
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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2022, 08:16:10 am »

Dear Frank, I agree with Richard that this is probably a early 20th century piece....John
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John O'Hara

Joey
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2022, 09:42:16 am »

It is a very appealing snuff bottle, and I agree that it could well be made primarily for use;
though there were bottles made like this, with a base made in wood so that they could be set on a desk.
I would date yours to ca. 1890 - 1920.

I have a bottle without a foot, like this one.
But due to the glaze & the style, it is dated to ca. 1680-1730.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2022, 11:06:45 am »


Frank,

At the moment I would agree with the dating placing this bottle as 1890-1920.   Interesting piece and worth adding to a collection.  Just as a side note, this is one of those bottles at was made as two halves that were seamed together with clay slip.

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

Boletus
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« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2022, 12:33:57 pm »

Dear John,

Thanks for your input, I guess the dating of 1890 - 1920 is the prevalent opinion.

Dear Joey,

Thank you for your dating of the bottle and for the appreciation.
It would be fantastic to be able to see some photos of your example!

Dear Charll,

Thanks for your comments, looking inside the bottle it becomes even more evident your point about the two halves.

I bought this bottle at auction, it came together with another beautiful B&W depicting two dragons that should be Daoguang, I will try to upload some images of it in my next reply.

Thanks again to everyone for their comments.

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Frank
Boletus
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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2022, 05:33:17 am »

Here is the other B&W bottle that came in the same lot of the previous one.

It is 5.6 cm in height without the stopper, and has a glazed interior.

Comments in regard to age and quality will be, as always, much appreciated.

Thank you.

Frank


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Frank
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« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2022, 06:37:12 am »


Hi Frank,
although the shape is recalling Daoguang period, the dating is the same of the previous bottle. Reasons are the style of the dragon, the cross-hatching type scales, the presence of the pea wine flower, which is typical of late 19th C. onwards. At least, IF it is pea wine, because the style is that of pea wine, but not exactly painted as such. On the other hand, it is not peony nor rose, because the petals are ending with a tip and not rounded. All in all, in my opinion, also the fact that the flower is not well identified is pointing toward a later date.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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Boletus
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« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2022, 09:07:51 am »

Thank you, Giovanni.

Judging by the surface watched under magnifying glass, this one too seems like a well used example.

This link is for a similar example I found on the 'net: https://www.clarkart.edu/artpiece/detail/snuff-bottle-(32)

Kind regards

Frank
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Frank
Boletus
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« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2022, 09:13:54 am »

P.S.

Sorry, it seems that the link doesn't work, anyway here is the only photo available of that example.

It is part of the Clark Art Institute Museum Collection, Williamstown, MA.

Cheers

Frank


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Frank
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« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2022, 11:31:58 am »

Frank, I agree with Giovanni's later dating. The quality of the footrim and the sloppy neck painting indicate a later date....John
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John O'Hara

Boletus
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« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2022, 02:34:59 pm »

Dear John,

Thank you for your comments.

Cheers

Frank
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Frank
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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2022, 04:36:05 pm »

Dear Frank,

     I must agree with Giovanni & John.
Another thing is the very crude apocryphal [or fake] Qianlong Nianzhi mark on the base.
But I must say, I like this example as well.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

YT
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« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2022, 10:13:24 pm »

Dear Frank,

Another nice example. I always like the smaller Blue and Whites.

DaoGuang era B&W bottles especially the dragons were painted more meticulate.

Cheers,
YT
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Boletus
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« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2022, 04:21:48 am »

Dear Joey,

Yes, what you and everyone else are saying is evident, it isn't a very fine example.
Yet, I am still very happy with it and glad you like this one too!
Thank you.

Dear YT,

Thank you for your appreciation, it's great that you consider it a nice example!.

Cheers

Frank
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Frank
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