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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
January 30, 2023, 12:46:15 pm
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Need your help, silhouette agate or glass?

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Author Topic: Need your help, silhouette agate or glass?  (Read 1669 times)
Joey
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« Reply #220 on: January 10, 2023, 11:56:48 am »

John,

   It looks like a beauty, but is confusing...
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

richy88
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« Reply #221 on: January 10, 2023, 07:27:42 pm »

Hi John

Yes, the carving on the bottle is quite unusual. The presentation is bold, not the usual way for a flower design.

Thanks for sharing.



Richard
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« Reply #222 on: January 11, 2023, 06:17:46 am »

 Another beauty! My first thought was an orchid growing from rockwork on the sides. I have a jade pebble with a similar design and have seen a couple of others in catalogs described as such. Every morning I check in here to see what wonderful bottle you have posted.    Bob
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« Reply #223 on: January 11, 2023, 06:49:18 am »

Bob, Thank you.
Richard, I have a bottle by Zhou Leyuan on clear glass [not frosted],
with orchids growing out of rockwork. C-7 in "Worlds", p.130.
The orchids are growing at an angle.
And to match it, on p.131, I've a fan painting by Xiao Quan [the artist's zi],
dated 1912, with orchids growing at an odd angle.
I think the stylized way the foliage was carved threw me.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #224 on: January 11, 2023, 08:16:16 am »

I thank everyone for their comments. I agree that it does look like an orchid flower. The next bottle is on the large size [70mm] but has dramatic markings and is very well hollowed. From an auction in 2015


* QU SHA LG1 (2).JPG (118.38 KB, 472x600 - viewed 6 times.)

* QU SHA LG2 (2).JPG (79.08 KB, 299x600 - viewed 4 times.)

* QU SHA LG3 (2).JPG (130.53 KB, 473x600 - viewed 5 times.)

* QU SHA LG4 (2).JPG (99.91 KB, 587x400 - viewed 7 times.)
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John O'Hara

Joey
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« Reply #225 on: January 11, 2023, 03:39:00 pm »

Beautiful bottle, John.
But what are the hatched lines on the last photo?
Are you simply showing the line of the foot-rim?
Best,
joey
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richy88
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« Reply #226 on: January 11, 2023, 10:02:04 pm »

Nice patterns, John.

Regards.


Richard
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« Reply #227 on: January 11, 2023, 10:27:19 pm »

Hi John & all

I tend to agree with Bob that the plant in post #219 is an orchid as it is a more popular flower among the literati in ancient China.

Here is one of my jade bottles incised with an orchid and filled with ink.

Regards.


Richard


* rsz_1b103a.jpg (46.9 KB, 580x714 - viewed 7 times.)
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« Reply #228 on: January 12, 2023, 12:30:22 pm »

Joey, are you talking about the white lines on top of the footrim? Those are reflections from my LED light. Richard, nice bottle. I do agree that the flowers are orchids. The next bottle [56mm] has a very thin profile and an oval neckrim. From an auction in 2016.


* OA SHA THIN1 (2).JPG (125.15 KB, 536x600 - viewed 6 times.)

* OA SHA THIN2 (2).JPG (69.4 KB, 209x600 - viewed 7 times.)

* OA SHA THIN3 (2).JPG (123.42 KB, 534x600 - viewed 5 times.)

* OA SHA THIN4 (2).JPG (140.9 KB, 929x400 - viewed 6 times.)
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John O'Hara

Joey
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« Reply #229 on: January 12, 2023, 04:12:13 pm »

Oh, John.
They looked like you'd marked a line...
The latest bottle looks to me like it's had the formerly broadly flared neck cut down,
possibly due to part getting damaged.
These were formerly called 'boot flasks' since it was believed that the very broadly flared necks,
flaring in all four directions, stopped the very thin bottles from slipping into a Manchu's or Mongol's
riding boot, where it was believed they were carried.
We know now that these bottles were not carried there...
Best,
Joey
« Last Edit: January 12, 2023, 04:15:51 pm by Joey » Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #230 on: January 13, 2023, 07:33:06 am »

Joey, I thought Hugh Moss coined the term "boot bottles". The bottle could have had a wider neckrim but I am not seeing any evidence of polishing. The next bottle [57mm] is pebble shaped and is nicely hollowed. From the collection I bought in N.Y. in 1998.


* CAT AGA PEB1 (2).JPG (97.25 KB, 366x600 - viewed 5 times.)

* CAT AGA PEB2 (2).JPG (68.65 KB, 193x600 - viewed 3 times.)

* CAT AGA PEB3 (2).JPG (99.2 KB, 364x600 - viewed 5 times.)

* CAT AGA PEB4 (2).JPG (114.76 KB, 663x400 - viewed 2 times.)
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John O'Hara

Joey
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« Reply #231 on: January 13, 2023, 03:50:01 pm »

Dear John,

    Ann Kreuger, originally of Stockholm Sweden, but after 1973, of Douvaine France
[just across the Swiss border from Geneva], gave a lecture in Honolulu in 1981,
at the first Honolulu convention of the ICSBS.
She referred to 'boot flasks' for the first time, so far as I am aware.
If Hugh Moss made it up before, I'm not aware.
In any event, since it turned out to be totally wrong - they didn't carry
snuff bottles in their boots! - whoever wants to claim invention of the idea,
is welcome to it... Shocked Grin
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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« Reply #232 on: January 14, 2023, 01:37:58 pm »

Joey, I do not know who invented it but it always seemed like a stupid idea to me. The next bottle [69mm] is very well hollowed with nice handles and foot. From an internet auction in 2009.


* AGA HAN1 (2).JPG (107.83 KB, 445x600 - viewed 5 times.)

* AGA HAN2 (2).JPG (78.1 KB, 259x600 - viewed 4 times.)

* AGA HAN3 (2).JPG (110.85 KB, 454x600 - viewed 3 times.)

* AGA HAN4 (2).JPG (111.65 KB, 644x400 - viewed 4 times.)
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Joey
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« Reply #233 on: January 14, 2023, 05:15:24 pm »

Dear John,

     I have sheepskin boots with soft bottoms, which look sort of
like Manchu or Mongol boots, and I sewed a silk pouch at the top of each one,
but just inside.
When I wore the boots as part of my costume for the Final Banquet at a number
of conventions, I put a bottle in one and my key card and funds for soft drinks,
in the other. They actually work, but then I'm not riding on a pony...

I love the cloudy look in the first photo.
Another beautiful bottle.
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #234 on: January 14, 2023, 09:12:24 pm »

Hi all

In my opinion, all these names are just marketing tools.

They tend to create an impression that they are a class above the rest and hopefully, sell their merchandise at a higher price.

Just my thoughts.

Regards.


Richard
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Joey
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« Reply #235 on: January 15, 2023, 06:34:07 pm »

Dear Richard,

    You are 100% correct. Just marketing tools to 'brand' stuff  so it can be sold higher.

Just like mis-labeling  very late 18th / early 19th C. IPSBs as 'Lingnan School' [sic],
which refers to a TOTALLY different art style.

Or mis-labeling carved hardstone SBs as "Master of the Rocks", when that is an accepted
Chinese Art History term ONLY for Transitional Ware B & W porcelain.

Or "Suzhou School", when fully 70% or 80% of hardstone carving in China was attributed
to carving workshops in Suzhou and environs.

Best,
joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #236 on: January 17, 2023, 11:45:52 am »

Richard and Joey, I agree with your thoughts on "special names". Another way to ask for more money. This next example [57mm] is very well hollowed. It came from an auction in 2010.


* po aga sha1 (2).JPG (115.57 KB, 449x600 - viewed 8 times.)

* po aga sha2 (2).JPG (82.28 KB, 260x600 - viewed 3 times.)

* po aga sha3 (2).JPG (102.52 KB, 450x600 - viewed 3 times.)

* po aga sha4 (2).JPG (115.38 KB, 647x400 - viewed 4 times.)
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Joey
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« Reply #237 on: January 17, 2023, 12:09:18 pm »

John,
 
  Both the last two bottles you have posted have had a
beautiful cloudy look to the stone on the front and reverse.
I love this in a plain Chalcedony.
Is this due to the stone itself, or due to the way it was hollowed?
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #238 on: January 17, 2023, 12:59:59 pm »

Joey, years ago I asked the same question to Robert Kleiner. He said that this source material was used up by the end of the dynasty. It can still be seen even if the bottle is not that well hollowed, but the extreme hollowing really shows it off the best possible way.
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Joey
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« Reply #239 on: January 17, 2023, 03:30:19 pm »

Interesting, John.
So the material itself is the 'source',
but it is improved by fine hollowing.
Thank you,
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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