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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
December 04, 2022, 04:31:54 pm
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Scholar and attendant while fishing B&W bottle

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Author Topic: Scholar and attendant while fishing B&W bottle  (Read 87 times)
Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« on: May 11, 2022, 12:36:05 pm »

Dear all,
a fisherman in a mountainous river or lake landscape is a well-known motif on b&w porcelain snuff bottles. Up to now, I have only seen a solitary fisherman on such bottles. This one is the only “fisherman” bottle that I have seen with two figures.  By looking at their faces it is evident that the fisherman is an old man (moustaches, and a short beard) while the other figure is a young one (round face). This means that the scene is representing a scholar while fishing and his attendant; in fact, the young man has something on his lap, which most probably is a qin. It is known that scholars had a special appreciation for fishing.
The bottle is on my site, where I have included more references about scholars and fishing activity and the pictures can be enlarged:
 https://www.xipangu.co.uk/mangialupo/?product=c45-a-scholar-and-his-attendant-while-fishing-snuff-bottle
Kind regards
Giovanni


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rpfstoneman
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2022, 07:05:52 pm »


Giovanni, a question?  Does this bottle have side seams on the interior (i.e., made as two halves)?  If not it may be a 'slip-pour' or 'clay slurry' ceramic bottle.

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

Wattana
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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2022, 10:25:53 pm »

Dear Giovanni,

I like the fluid brushwork on this bottle, which shows particular well on the reverse side.
And I enjoyed the write-up in your website. Good research work!

Best,
Tom
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Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2022, 12:29:52 am »

Dear Charll,
thank you for asking. The bottle is made in two halves, and it is totally glazed inside (I heard something about porcelain bottles being glazed inside, as an indication of older bottles, but I am not sure about that).
I am adding a picture where you may understand, by the fact that the light reflection at the base is divided in two halves, that the base is not flat. Not very evident but I could do better if needed.
Anyway, by looking inside the bottle the seam line all around the body is very clear. The potting is thin, transmitting light through, and very lightweight.
By the quality of painting, the surface wear and general feeling, I am sure that the bottle is an old one. If the blue were not so pale, the quality of painting would be more evident.
Dear Tom, thank you for the appreciation. Compared with the majority of “fisherman” b&w porcelain bottles, this one is odd not only for having the two figures, but also because of the shape. If I am not wrong, up to now I have only seen fisherman bottles with the cylindrical shape.
Kind regards
Giovanni


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Joey
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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2022, 04:56:28 am »

Dear Giovanni,

    Very pleasing bottle, which I'd date to ca. 1865-1900.


A pity about the damage.
Would you think of Kintsugi [Japanese gold lacquer] repair?
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2022, 05:43:23 am »

Thank you, dear Joey; comment much appreciated.
Yes, will do the repair. I am busy with other things currently, and besides of that, the restoration as I do it requires the preparation of the fillings and so on; thus, I prefer to join some bottles that need the repair and restore all them at a glance.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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bambooforrest
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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2022, 12:34:07 pm »

Dear Giovanni, I also like the bottle and agree with Joey's dating. I have several fisherman bottles, but none with a scholar and attendant....John
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John O'Hara

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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2022, 02:13:31 pm »

Thank you, dear John. Glad to hear that you are confirming that the bottle is unusual.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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rpfstoneman
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2022, 03:38:39 pm »


Giovanni,

There is old (post 1850) which you seem to be sure of, then there is OLD (pre 1850)!  My assessment of age is the same as provided by Joey, 1865-1900.  These 2-halves seamed bottles in this body style tend to all be 2nd half of 19th century from my experience.

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2022, 04:25:31 pm »

Dear Charll,
do you mean that bottles with this flattened flask shape are all after 1850 in your experience? That is very interesting to know.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2022, 12:06:41 am »


These 2-halves seamed bottles in this body style tend to all be 2nd half of 19th century from my experience.


Charll,

I think you are right. I have two porcelain examples of exactly the same shape at Giovanni's fisherman bottle.
One is Daoguang period - it has relatively thick walls that let in very little light, and is made in one piece
The other is late 19th century - it has very thin almost translucent walls, and is made in two halves.

Tom
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Hooked since 1971

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