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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
November 26, 2022, 04:50:41 pm
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A collection assembled through 1927 - 1960

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Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« on: August 13, 2021, 12:10:14 pm »

Dear all, while surfing on the net I stumbled in a nice double gourd glass bottle, imitating realgar.
It was described as being made of “marbled red agate”.
I found that it is in the Canterbury Museum, Christchurch, New Zealand.
Then I did contact the Museum, for making them aware of the mistake.
The Associate Curator of the Museum kindly reply that they did check it and found that the description was indeed wrong, and thanking me for that.
They also said that the bottle come into Museum’s collection through the donation of about 1400 objects of Cinese Art, made by a New Zealander gentleman who lived in China. They sent me the following link, which is linked to the collection donated by the gentleman, together with its story, etc:
 http://www.rewialleyart.nz/index
I thought that what is interesting for us is that all the bottles in this collection has been bought in China and not in the international market.
There are several items in the collection, but if you click on tab “Exhibits” and scroll down that page, you will find the “Snuff bottles” area. By clicking on any of the 74 bottles, you will access better and larger pictures.
Or better, here is the link top the snuff bottles page:
http://www.rewialleyart.nz/exhibits/show/snuff-bottle/1
Enjoy,
Giovanni
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YT
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2021, 09:30:58 pm »

Dear Giovanni,

Thanks for the link. A majority Porcelain group, that really tells you what was available during the first half of 20th Century China.

There are mistakes everywhere and glad you are helping them.

This should be Shadow Agate and not frosted glass.
http://www.rewialleyart.nz/exhibits/show/snuff-bottle/item/754

This looks to be a urinal chamber pot than a Snuff bottle. Unless it is small enough, then it becomes more of a display piece.
http://www.rewialleyart.nz/exhibits/show/snuff-bottle/item/323

Highly suspicious of this being a White Jade instead of glass.
http://www.rewialleyart.nz/exhibits/show/snuff-bottle/item/177

Carved bone bottle instead of Glazed Ceramic
http://www.rewialleyart.nz/exhibits/show/snuff-bottle/item/781

Stained Calcified Jade instead of Chalcedony.
http://www.rewialleyart.nz/exhibits/show/snuff-bottle/item/792

That was fun. More to discover.

Cheers,
YT
« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 09:33:24 pm by YT » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2021, 01:56:55 am »

Dear Giovanni,
Thank you for introducing me to this previously unknown collection.
Indeed interesting to see what was being sold inside China in the earlier part of the 20th century.
I see both you and YT are having fun correcting the museum's descriptions.  Wink
Regards,
Tom
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Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2021, 02:00:25 am »

Dear YT,
Upon the answer from the Museum sending me the link, I sent them an answer with a list of mistakes.
The same you have pointed out, except the bone bottle, which I did not verify because I do not like them, and the calcified jade, which too I have not examined.
So thank you very much, will send the corrections to the lady.
What I did like very much are some b&w bottles and overall some original spoon/stoppers.
What is really strange is the urinal shaped object, because it is very small. Could it be meant for children, in your opinion? For sure not a snuff bottle.
Kind regards
Giovanni
PS: Yes dear Tom, it is fun to catch the mistakes. I presume that they do not have an expert on Chinese Art.
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2021, 02:10:20 am »


What is really strange is the urinal shaped object, because it is very small. Could it be meant for children, in your opinion? For sure not a snuff bottle.



Dear Giovanni,
Looking at the dimensions, I believe it was created as a humorous design for a snuff bottle. 
As a urinal, I don't think it would be practical for anything larger than a rat or squirrel.
Regards,
Tom
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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2021, 02:13:37 am »

Dear Tom, you make me laugh! Grin Grin
Dear YT,
Look at this bottle. I think that it is representing “Li Bo releasing the crane”, I have a plaque with that motif.
Is it correct the translation of the mark, made by them?
Kind regards,
Giovanni
http://www.rewialleyart.nz/exhibits/show/snuff-bottle/item/796


* IMG_3.jpg (66.25 KB, 900x675 - viewed 15 times.)
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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2021, 02:48:51 am »


What is really strange is the urinal shaped object, because it is very small. Could it be meant for children, in your opinion? For sure not a snuff bottle.



Dear Giovanni,
Looking at the dimensions, I believe it was created as a humorous design for a snuff bottle. 
As a urinal, I don't think it would be practical for anything larger than a rat or squirrel.
Regards,
Tom

Dear Tom,

I managed to find a Chamber pot mimicking Snuff bottle.  Grin
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19305/lot/49/
With beautifully painted scales and five claws.

Best,
YT


* Chamber Pot mimic SB.jpg (63.1 KB, 647x659 - viewed 17 times.)
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2021, 03:32:52 am »


Is it correct the translation of the mark, made by them?

http://www.rewialleyart.nz/exhibits/show/snuff-bottle/item/796

Dear Giovanni,

That bottle mark is wrongly translated too  Tongue
It should be seal mark "Tong yun shan fang"

Here is a vase that shows similar mark.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20108/lot/399/?category=list

Cheers,
YT
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2021, 03:54:20 am »

Dear YT, which is the meaning please?
Giovanni
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2021, 04:02:04 am »


Dear YT,
Look at this bottle. I think that it is representing “Li Bo releasing the crane”, I have a plaque with that motif.

http://www.rewialleyart.nz/exhibits/show/snuff-bottle/item/796

Dear Giovanni,

There are no “Li Bo releasing the crane”, only can find the
"Crane Release Pavilion Story. Fanghe Pavilion was built in memory of Lin Hejing, a poet from the Northern Song Dynasty (960-1127). One of the most famous poets of his time, Lin lived in seclusion on Solitary Hill for more than 20 years.
His great works won him nationwide fame. After his death, the then emperor gave him the posthumous title of “Hejing Master” even though Lin had refused to hold office in government. Lin’s poetry and story ensure he still has an important place in Chinese history today.
The poet never married and never fathered any children. When not writing poems, Lin spent his spare time planting plum trees and raising cranes. Eventually people said he took a plum tree as his wife and had cranes as sons.
Fanghe Pavilion, which means “release cranes,” was originally built in the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368) after Lin had died. In later dynasties, poems and calligraphy works were written on the pavilion in tribute to this great poet.
Behind Fanghe Pavilion is Lin’s tomb. It’s set among plum trees and bronze crane statues."



I have attached a Christie's auction of a Lacquer box carved with the Crane Release Pavilion Story.

Also my YangZhou Glass Overlay with similar story.  Grin
Provenance:
Kaynes-Klitz Collection;
Sotheby's Hong Kong, 30th October 1990, lot 14;
Mary and George Bloch 10;
Sotheby's Hong Kong, 1st June 2015, Lot 158;
Ng Collection 579

Cheers,
YT


* 579 Christies Release Crane.jpg (217.81 KB, 1346x896 - viewed 16 times.)

* 579 Joint.jpg (114.28 KB, 1148x601 - viewed 28 times.)
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2021, 04:13:05 am »

Dear YT, which is the meaning please?
Giovanni


Dear Giovanni,

TONG YUN SHAN FANG「彤雲山房」 MARK actually came from Wang Xiaotang (1885-1924). He moved to Jingdezhen around 1909-1911 and within a few years had become an accomplished porcelain painter. The celebrated Wang Dafan (1888-1961) later became his pupil.

Tong Yun is a name
Shan Fang can be interpreted as a mountain lodge.
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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2021, 04:58:59 am »

Dear YT,
thank you very much!
I was not recalling well. I did check on Gotheborg where years ago I ahve posted the plaque. The nam eof the poet is not Li Bo, is Lin Bu.
In the following Wikipedia link, there is a painting representing the Poet. Below that painting, it is written "Hejing Xiansheng", I don't know why, but then I think that probably Lin Bu and Lin Hejing should be the same person. What do you think?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin_Bu
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2021, 05:26:56 am »

Dear Giovanni,

You are right, it is the same person.
Very respected for his work, so much so that the pavilion is still around after almost a thousand years.

Cheers,
YT

Ps: very impressed with your knowledge of Chinese history and stories.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 05:32:32 am by YT » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2021, 07:52:44 am »

Dear YT, thank you but actually I know nothing. Just personages and stories that are represented on Chinese porcelain.
Kind regards
Giovanni
BTW I will revise also the ceramics of that Museum.
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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2021, 10:04:52 am »

Dear Giovanni,

Thank you for sharing the link.

Inn bok
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