Click On Globe To View Forum Visitors From Around The World

About This Forum

This snuff bottle community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert collectors. Topics are intended to cover all aspects and types of bottle collecting. To include trials, tribulations, identifying, researching, and much more.

Photobucket

Among other things, donations help keep the forum free from Google type advertisements, and also make it possible to purchases additional photo hosting MB space.

Forum Bottle in the Spotlight

Charll shared this absolutely stunning cobalt blue dragon pillar bottle. Imperial kilns, Jingdezhen.

"The Peter Bentley Snuff Bottle Collection"
and "introduction by Bill Patrick"


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
July 25, 2021, 01:46:23 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Contact Login Register  

Enamel – Vase Wrapped in Knotted Brocade

Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Enamel – Vase Wrapped in Knotted Brocade  (Read 81 times)
rpfstoneman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 1954



« on: July 18, 2021, 01:08:55 pm »


This enamel on copper appears to be a design of a vase wrapped with a knotted brocade.  It is a design that I believe I have seen in the past, but I am unfamiliar with its origin.

The bottle (6.0 cm in height) is highly detailed in its design and appears to have some age.   Anyone believe that this could be Qianlong ‘mark and period’ as indicated by the quality and color palette used?  The Qianlong mark appears to be in black enamel which I have read was used on mark and period bottles.
 
This bottle is outside my area of familiarity, and I am looking for any insight as to the quality and potential age of the bottle.
 
Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Charll


* 104920035_1_x.jpg (105.96 KB, 733x733 - viewed 24 times.)

* 104920035_2_x.jpg (111.89 KB, 733x733 - viewed 14 times.)

* 104920035_3_x.jpg (104.61 KB, 733x733 - viewed 17 times.)

* 104920035_4_x.jpg (113.04 KB, 733x733 - viewed 14 times.)

* 104920035_5_x.jpg (106.74 KB, 733x733 - viewed 12 times.)

* 104920035_6_x.jpg (97.07 KB, 733x733 - viewed 18 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 3471



« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2021, 01:40:18 pm »

Dear Charll,
what an impressively nice bottle! It surely has some age, and I frankly would not be surprised if it is M&P, due to its quality.
Porcelain vases with wrapped brocade exist, especially of the Qianlong period.
Very very nice.
Giovanni
Report Spam   Logged

Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 9793


« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2021, 01:57:54 pm »

Dear Charll,

   It definitely has age, but I doubt it is late 18th C.
I'd date it to ca. 1880-1920.
The mark looks 'right' but the style of the enameling looks later to me.
And the bottle could be artificially aged.
It could even be ca.1990-2000, since the artisans in the PRC tended to go over the top in decoration.
It looks much too ornate for the Qianlong period.
But still a tour-de-force.
I even wondered if it could be a late Meiji period Japanese snuff bottle.
Best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

YT
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 1511



« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2021, 05:49:07 pm »

Dear Charll,

   It definitely has age, but I doubt it is late 18th C.
I'd date it to ca. 1880-1920.
The mark looks 'right' but the style of the enameling looks later to me.
And the bottle could be artificially aged.
It could even be ca.1990-2000, since the artisans in the PRC tended to go over the top in decoration.
It looks much too ornate for the Qianlong period.
But still a tour-de-force.
I even wondered if it could be a late Meiji period Japanese snuff bottle.
Best,
Joey
Dear Charll,

I agree with Joey's comments although I doubt it is a Japanese bottle.
The Blue Enamel Qianlong mark looks to be written on and fading in some area.

Best,
YT
Report Spam   Logged

George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 11126



WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2021, 07:17:23 pm »

This is just an amazingly beautiful bottle Charll.. Like you these are out of my area of expertise, but it certainly stands out as a favorite from the many other enamel on coppers I have seen.

I can see how Joey sees a Japanese style to it, most notably the knotted brocades.

Great bottle !
Report Spam   Logged

"Experience Each Experience To The Fullest To Obtain The Most Growth"

My Snuff Bottle Journal
YT
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 1511



« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2021, 08:28:59 pm »

Dear George,

The Yellow ground and brocade design has long been associated with Emperor Yong Zheng. Usually a symbol of birthday wishes to the Emperor.
I have seen quite a few Enameled vase, jar ..... in both Palace museum. Cannot find the photos I taken though, not sure where I kept them.

Best,
YT
Report Spam   Logged

rpfstoneman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 1954



« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2021, 10:17:19 pm »

Thank you all for the comments. Joey, you are likely right with this being a later 1880-1920 copy.  YT as usual, your comments are inline with what I found. 

With a little effort I found the reference where I had seen this design which was in a Sotheby's auction.  Below is a paraphrased section of the action item description which was a yellow glass vase.  But also illustrated in the article was an enameled copper jar.

The wrapping of vessels in cloth pouches and squares is today best known from the Japanese use of the furoshiki wrapping cloth, but valuable objects were of course similarly wrapped in China.  The illusion of an object wrapped in cloth was frequently evoked in Japanese lacquer, of which the Yongzheng Emperor appears to have been particularly fond.  Among the many lacquer objects in his collection were several pieces modelled in relief with the folds of gathered or knotted cloths, sometimes tied with a cord, or even shaped in form of pouches tied with ribbons.  Imperial workshops were engaged in recreating this trompe-l’oeil wrapping effect in various media, for example, in lacquer, sandalwood, copper and porcelain.  However, on none of these vessels is the trompe-l’œil effect as evocative as on the present glass vessel, which have the knotted sashes painted flat onto the surface, rather than modelled in three-dimensional relief.



The strikingly conceived and executed design of the present bottle is a pure product of the artistic climate of the ateliers inside the Forbidden City, where artists and artisans proficient in many different media worked side by side and influenced each other.  The design is not only ravishingly beautiful, but also highly auspicious, both on account of its shape and its decoration.  The term baofu (‘wrapping cloth’) is wordplay on ‘wrapping up good luck.’  Phoenixes and peonies are revered as general harbingers of blessings and prosperity.

Enameled copper jar which was reproduced as a snuff bottle.


PAINTED COPPER ENAMEL JAR AND COVER DECORATED WITH A SASH, MARK AND PERIOD OF YONGZHENG, THE NATIONAL PALACE MUSEUM, TAIPEI

A workshop for enameling was first set up in the Forbidden City by the Kangxi Emperor in 1693 and a glass workshop followed in 1696, and we know that at least by 1705 enameled glass items had been successfully completed and sent to the emperor.  The Beijing Enameling Workshops supplied large numbers of exquisitely painted falangcai wares to the court from the late Kangxi to the mid-Qianlong period.  These works were typically copper-bodied or porcelain-bodied, while the glass counterparts were more unusual.  Of the falangcai glass pieces produced, snuff bottles made up the largest proportion by far, followed by miniature vases, miniature brush pots and other small vessels for the desk.   (Source: https://www.sothebys.com/en/articles/a-brocade-pouch-to-amuse-the-emperor)

Charll






Report Spam   Logged

Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

Wattana
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 5780



« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2021, 10:39:40 pm »

Charll,

I too would have said the decoration on your bottle looks too 'over-the-top' for an 18th century product. But having seen the last photo of the Yongzheng copper enamel jar, that argument doesn't hold water.
 
It is interesting to note that your bottle shares the same lappet motif around the neck as the Yongzheng jar, with the inverted ruyi heads that resemble drooping flowers.

Whenever your bottle was made, there is no denying it is a spectacular piece of workmanship. Congratulations!

Tom
Report Spam   Logged

Hooked since 1971

Luke
Private Boards
Sr. Member
***
Posts: 268


« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2021, 07:16:39 am »

Charll,

Congratulations! It looks exquisite! No idea about the age, but I have come across some similar examples - 2 snuff bottles and a vase:

https://www.christies.com/lot/lot-a-rare-guangzhou-enamel-snuff-bottle-4258027/?from=salesummary&intObjectID=4258027&lid=1
https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-4478863
https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2007/yuan-ming-yuan-the-garden-of-absolute-clarity-and-imperial-peking-the-last-days-hk0260/lot.1325.html

Best
Luke
Report Spam   Logged

Luke

George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 11126



WWW
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2021, 07:39:21 am »

Charll,

Congratulations! It looks exquisite! No idea about the age, but I have come across some similar examples - 2 snuff bottles and a vase:

Best
Luke

Nice finds Luke !
Report Spam   Logged

"Experience Each Experience To The Fullest To Obtain The Most Growth"

My Snuff Bottle Journal
Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 9793


« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2021, 04:26:09 pm »

Having seen the three examples that Luke posted [Impressive detecting, Luke. Well done you],
I'd withdraw the 'Japanese' suggestion [and George, you were spot on! It was the furoshiki-style wrapping in brocade cloth that made me suggest that].
But I myself have a number of jade bottles carved with tromp l'oel brocade or smooth sash wrapping.
Best,
joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Wattana
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 5780



« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2021, 10:52:39 pm »


But I myself have a number of jade bottles carved with tromp l'oel brocade or smooth sash wrapping.


I also have an example in agate (chalcedony).
Report Spam   Logged

Hooked since 1971

Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal