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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
February 05, 2023, 09:57:55 pm
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Non Chinese Oriental Collectables

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Author Topic: Non Chinese Oriental Collectables  (Read 593 times)
Wattana
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« on: June 22, 2020, 02:48:47 am »

Hi All,

I do collect other types of oriental antiques, that are not snuff bottles and not Chinese. I'm sure several other forum members have similar collections. Since the forum seems to be rather quiet of late, and Persian antiques are now getting discussed Wink, I'm wondering if we shouldn't have a category for sharing "Other Oriental Collectables".

It would be good to know what members think about the idea.

Tom
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joearp
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2020, 08:40:26 am »

Great idea to me!
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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2020, 04:01:14 pm »

Sounds good to me, as well.
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Joey
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2020, 04:11:10 am »

Hi All,

About time someone got this topic going, so here goes. I think most of us that collect snuff bottles also collect other things.

In my case, it is Southeast Asian wood carvings and vernacular artefacts. I have always been attracted to the things that ordinary villagers produced for their own use. Utilitarian items were always embellished in some way or other.

Take these loom pulleys from Cambodia, for example. Weaving was a staple of village life across most of the region, and these pulleys were part of the weaving loom, allowing the warping board to be moved up and down within the loom frame.

They always came in pairs, although it is difficult to find matching pairs. 'Matching' is not quite the correct word, because while they may look as if they match at first glance, there were always slight differences between the two, as one was a 'male' pulley, and the other a 'female' pulley. (Don't ask me to say which is which!)

Just enjoy......and sorry about the poor focus.   




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* RIMG1240.JPG (687.43 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 21 times.)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 04:12:45 am by Wattana » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2020, 04:50:42 am »

By comparison, loom pulleys from Burma (Myanmar) tend to be larger and less geometric than the Cambodian ones, and usually carved in the form of animals. Here, as two birds. If you look carefully, you will notice some deliberate differences in the comb atop the head, and the plumage, to differentiate male and female.

The weaving of textiles was carried out exclusively by the women. I was told that young village men would carve these pulleys to present to a young woman at their engagement. Elaborate carving was a way to demonstrate his skill in making all the household things they would need after marriage. The more elaborate the pulleys, the more impressed she would be!


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* RIMG1243a.jpg (261.03 KB, 907x1210 - viewed 14 times.)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 04:57:57 am by Wattana » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2020, 05:50:43 am »

Dear Tom,

    I saw them in your home, of course, but they look somehow more impressive in the photos.
Wonderful objects.
I will ask Pini to photograph some of my non-Chinese East Asian art objects, and then figure out how to get them on this thread.

Best,
joey
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2020, 07:12:16 am »

Dear Joey,

Look forward to seeing them. Let's get this thread rolling.

Best,
Tom
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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2020, 09:20:01 am »

Those are all absolutely wonderful pieces Tom !

I see these pulleys from time to time, but hard for me to know if they are authentic..

Thanks for sharing Tom !
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2020, 04:35:39 am »

Dear Tom,

    We photographed a bunch of objects yesterday, mainly Japanese:
1. A Taisho period stand made up of a tight 'nest' of roots or vines, grown in a unit, then cut off, treated in some way, and preserved. Lacquer?
2. & 3. 2 very small but fine Satsuma vessels, a vase and an incense burner [sadly missing its cover]. Could be Meiji or Taisho.
4. A Taisho tea caddy in brown terracotta with an ivory cover.
5. A Taisho silver container in the shape of a crane, made to hold a wedding sweets gift.
6. A Meiji [or even earlier] iron carpenter's tool for cutting out rectangular dowels and openings for them.
7. A modern Netsuke [I bought it in Wellington NZ in late Dec. 2005 and it was new] made in New Zealand of whale bone, representing a sperm whale.
8. A Chinese Warring States period bronze cauldron handle in the shape of a mythological creature, inlaid with gold.

I'll give more info plus measurements, when I post the objects.
Best,

Joey
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2020, 05:04:41 am »

Dear Joey,

I can't wait to see them!

Best,
Tom
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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2020, 05:06:49 am »

Those are all absolutely wonderful pieces Tom !

I see these pulleys from time to time, but hard for me to know if they are authentic..

Thanks for sharing Tom !

Thanks George,

You can usually tell the modern ones. They don't have the same wear and patina as the old ones, and the carving is less intricate.

Tom
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« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2020, 05:59:16 pm »

Dear Tom,

    As soon as Pini sends me the photos he took, I will give measurements and forward them to you.
I'd appreciate it if you could post them on my behalf.
Steven used to, but I've not heard from him in a long time.
Best,
joey


Dear Joey,

I can't wait to see them!

Best,
Tom
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« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2020, 10:30:17 pm »

Dear Joey,

No problem. Send via email, including the descriptions and any other information like size.

Best,
Tom
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« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2020, 10:50:15 pm »


I see these pulleys from time to time, but hard for me to know if they are authentic..


George,

Here is a pair of old Khmer (Cambodian) loom pulleys from a museum collection.
Contrary to what I said, it looks like not all poorly carved examples are modern.
But the old ones definitely have patina!

Tom


* Khmer-Silk_Pair of loom pulleys_1.jpg (63.12 KB, 684x941 - viewed 18 times.)

* Khmer-Silk_Pair of loom pulleys_2.jpg (65.5 KB, 668x941 - viewed 14 times.)
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« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2020, 06:14:34 am »


I see these pulleys from time to time, but hard for me to know if they are authentic..


George,

Here is a pair of old Khmer (Cambodian) loom pulleys from a museum collection.
Contrary to what I said, it looks like not all poorly carved examples are modern.
But the old ones definitely have patina!

Tom

Thank you Smiley
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« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2020, 01:55:08 pm »

Dear Tom,

    Thank you. I will.

Your pieces are museum-quality in my opinion. These are not.
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2020, 09:29:16 pm »

Dear Joey,

Museums get what they are bequeathed!
Then they decide what to sell off, what to put into storage, and what to display.
Some museums have more to choose from, some less.  Grin

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Tom
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2020, 03:49:34 am »

Dear Tom,

     Good point. I'd not thought about that.
My feeling has always been that people donate top quality objects or give money to the institution to buy top quality objects.
At least, that is how it's always been in Israel at the Israel Museum Jerusalem, the Islamic Museum Jerusalem, the Tel Aviv Museum of Art {TAMA};
in Toronto [at the ROM {Royal Ontario Museum}, The Gardiner Ceramics Museum, the Aga Khan Museum of Islamic Arts and Culture, the Artt Gallery of Ontario {AGO}, etc.];
in Honolulu, [the HMA {Honolulu Museum of Art, formerly the Honolulu Academy of Arts, the Contemporary Art Museum of Honolulu, the Linekona [Lincoln] School Youth Art Wing, and Shangrila, Doris Duke's palatial homage to Islamic Art in Kahala, and in the Bishop Museum of Polynesian Culture and Arts]; and other museums I've had contact with.

  I offered very fine Bukharan silk garments, Taisho Obis and Obi Patterns, and other Central & East Asian art objects, and the National Museum of Ireland politely refused them, unless I was prepared to give a hefty endowment to fund their future care. I declined, equally politely. Roll Eyes Grin


Well. I just {Thurs.16.July} had 2 COVID-19 tests, the swab in mouth and nose, which documents my present health status - Negative, Thank G-D. I did the test at 6:00pm and received the results at 10:00am today {Fri.17.July}. The second test, involving a blood sample, will tell if I ever had it, by showing antibodies in the bloodstream. I will have those results by Sun. at some time before 6:00pm.

I was tested because Pini's ex-wife has Coronavirus, from not taking proper precautions. Like 1872 other, equally stupid Israelis who found out they were sick on Thurs.
We found out from their son's 'Gan' [kindergarten] yesterday at 4:00pm, when she came to pick him up. The Gan [and every other Gan, school, Kanion {Mall}, etc., in Israel],
has a scanner that registers if someone has a fever, etc., and immediately takes a photo and sends a notice to the Health Ministry Corona HQ, the Israel Police, and the other parent. It has a 20-30 second chance to cancel the notifications, but it is an immediate custodial sentence if a person cancels it when it is valid.
We are taking this very seriously. Most of us, at least.

Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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