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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
February 05, 2023, 10:05:49 pm
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Tang Dynasty Jarlet

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George
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« on: March 31, 2020, 02:59:12 pm »

Quarantine pic for the day  Smiley

Sitting around the house bored, so thought would share this jarlet..

Tang Dynasty, 8th to 9th century Lushan ware. Light gray stoneware with splash glaze. 2 7/8", Duandian kiln, Lushan county, Henan province.

Enjoy !



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Joey
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2020, 09:37:17 pm »

Dear George,

    That's beautiful! Thank you for sharing.

Joey
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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2020, 09:42:16 pm »

Hi George,

What a wonderful relief from quarantine! Thanks for sharing.

A great looking jarlet - I wonder what concoctions it once contained. If only jars could speak.

Tom
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« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2020, 03:30:37 am »

George,

     I love the glaze on this, and it looked familiar.
I have a Tang teabowl, which I received from Y.F. Yang z"l [of blessed memory] one year in Hawaii as a New Year's gift.
It was in 2002, 2003, or 2006 [the last three years I was in Hawaii during Chinese New Year]. The teabowl is in Ireland, with my Japanese tea stuff.
Best,
Joey
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George
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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2020, 08:07:24 am »

George,

     I love the glaze on this, and it looked familiar.
I have a Tang teabowl, which I received from Y.F. Yang z"l [of blessed memory] one year in Hawaii as a New Year's gift.
It was in 2002, 2003, or 2006 [the last three years I was in Hawaii during Chinese New Year]. The teabowl is in Ireland, with my Japanese tea stuff.
Best,
Joey

It is among my favorite of glazes Joey.. I also am partial to mottled wood ash, and black glazes. Not only from China, but also Thailand and Cambodia as well..

You are very fortunate to have one of the tea bowls.. They are so far out of my ability to ever afford a nice one.
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Mat
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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2020, 11:26:51 am »

Hi George, very nice jarlet! What is the size? Could you post a picture of the bottom? It looks very much like a Japanese Seto tea container, a chaire, for tea ceremony. Are you sure that it is Chinese and Tang?
Best,
Matthias
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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2020, 11:45:57 am »

Hi George, very nice jarlet! What is the size? Could you post a picture of the bottom? It looks very much like a Japanese Seto tea container, a chaire, for tea ceremony. Are you sure that it is Chinese and Tang?
Best,
Matthias

Thanks Matthias...  2 7/8", and yes I am positive it is as described, Chinese  Smiley

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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2020, 11:57:13 am »

Thank you George for showing the botton. The characteristic traces of the wire with which the potter cut the clay on the bottom are also typical of Seto chaire. The size is right, too.In my opinion you have a very nice and old example, 17th- 18th c.
 Regards, Matthias
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2020, 12:51:03 pm »

 2 7/8 inches =  73 mm [7.3 cm].

My teabowl has both a diameter and a height of 100 mm /10 cm
[3.94 {3 11.3/12} inches].


Hi George, very nice jarlet! What is the size? Could you post a picture of the bottom? It looks very much like a Japanese Seto tea container, a chaire, for tea ceremony. Are you sure that it is Chinese and Tang?
Best,
Matthias

Thanks Matthias...  2 7/8", and yes I am positive it is as described, Chinese  Smiley


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George
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2020, 04:40:46 pm »

Thank you George for showing the botton. The characteristic traces of the wire with which the potter cut the clay on the bottom are also typical of Seto chaire. The size is right, too.In my opinion you have a very nice and old example, 17th- 18th c.
 Regards, Matthias

Thank you, but it is much earlier, 8th to 9th century..  The cutting rings on the base are the result of the potter working a string between the piece and the potters wheel so as to be able and remove it.

During the Kamakura period, wares produced in Seto imitated the pottery of the Song Dynasty. Seto clay was/is a kaolin and porcelain stone which "turns white" when fired.
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« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2020, 04:54:20 am »

I cannot doubt your jar being 8th to 9th c as I do not know that Duandian kiln to be sure it is not. I know what the wire marks on the bottom are but that is a feature which appears regularly on Seto jarlets. Does it also appear on Lushan wares? Seto clay is not always white. I show you a piece I own for comparison.



* ch1.jpg (281.3 KB, 1042x1134 - viewed 19 times.)

* ch2.jpg (300.5 KB, 1134x1134 - viewed 24 times.)
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« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2020, 06:53:04 am »

Dear George,
I too am not sure about Tang attribution.
I do not have a great experience about Lushan ware, due to its rarity.
But I do not remember of having seen a Tang jarlet with that shape, and the phosphatic streaks of Lushan ware are usually whitish.
I donít know if Mat is right, because I know nothing about Japanese ceramic, but surely the shape of your jar is much similar to the example he posted than the Chinese ones.
Have you bought it as Tang ware, and from a reliable source?
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2020, 08:12:14 am »

Dear George,
I too am not sure about Tang attribution.
I do not have a great experience about Lushan ware, due to its rarity.
But I do not remember of having seen a Tang jarlet with that shape, and the phosphatic streaks of Lushan ware are usually whitish.
I donít know if Mat is right, because I know nothing about Japanese ceramic, but surely the shape of your jar is much similar to the example he posted than the Chinese ones.
Have you bought it as Tang ware, and from a reliable source?
Kind regards
Giovanni


It does indeed look similar to Mat's Seto example, and thank you for that Mat..  I also am finding comparable examples to the one you shared Mat, and they are labeled as tea caddys. But they seem to be a bit rare..

Mat, please forgive as I remove my foot from my mouth !  Wink  I will re-label this as  Edo Period Ki-seto Chaire tea caddy, 17-18 th century.  Thank you very much Mat, greatly appreciate your expert guidance ..

Would be nice if it had a lid like others I am finding.. 

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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2020, 06:25:08 pm »

Dear George,

     I can't view the photo of the ceramic piece you posted.
I wanted to admire it again, whether Tang or Japanese.
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2020, 06:43:02 pm »

Dear George,

     I can't view the photo of the ceramic piece you posted.
I wanted to admire it again, whether Tang or Japanese.
Best,
Joey

That is odd..

I will attach them to this post instead of inserting a url. Hopefully you can see the attached pics..

I have read a lot of good information from within this book, "Potters and Patrons in Edo Period Japan: Takatori Ware and the Kuroda Domain". but am waiting for someone to send me the missing page 159 that is not showing in the Google book preview..

https://tinyurl.com/ycnma9uj


* jarlet1.jpg (170.38 KB, 648x715 - viewed 18 times.)

* jarlet2.jpg (171.54 KB, 643x706 - viewed 17 times.)

* jarlet3.jpg (228.65 KB, 774x737 - viewed 14 times.)
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« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2020, 08:46:15 am »

Dear George,

    Thank you. I can view it now.
I must be honest - I know nothing about the Japanese ceramics, though I have a small collection of vessels.
I believe possibly a dozen tea-bowls, and a few tea caddies, etc.

I have a few Southern Song tea-bowls, with a dark brown glaze that is so dark it is almost black.
One was from YF of blessed memory, and 2 I bought in Singapore at the Tanglin Road Antiques Mall, from a friend of
John Ang's.

And the one that looks like your vessel above.
I'm referring to the glaze and the way the glaze ends about  1 cm [1/2 inch] from the bottom in an uneven line all around.
Mr. Yang of blessed memory gave it to me and said it was Tang Dynasty.

The glaze as I remember it, looks identical to your vessel above.
And the way that it was removed from the potter's wheel is identical to both types of vessel [and many others, from many cultures and time periods].
Best,
Joey
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