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December 04, 2022, 04:41:21 pm
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Molded Porcelain leaf form bottle.

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Author Topic: Molded Porcelain leaf form bottle.  (Read 832 times)
forestman
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« on: February 01, 2019, 05:54:34 am »

This is from the same lot as the cricket and canton enamel bottles along with another two as well.

Overall leaf shape with a double leaf pattern to the edges and central panels with "leiwen" pattern.

There are a number of similar bottles with necks with a floral pattern and a flared lip. They were in Bob Stevens, Dr Martin Roshco and the J and J collections. Dates range from 1770-1840, 1800-1850 and 1780-1830.

There is a porcelain neck under what may be an amber collar that is over it with the green stem being the stopper. I can't see that the porcelain neck is damaged so assume the collar and stopper were made to make it more leaf like whereas the other examples had more usual stoppers.

Regards, Adrian.


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Joey
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« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2019, 06:24:43 am »

Dear Adrian,

     I had 2 of these - one with the flared neck ground down, and the second with the original flared neck. When I did my 1987 Israel Museum catalogue, I did not yet own the one with the original flared neck, and had quite a few even better molded porcelain examples [see #s: 53, 54, 58, 61, and 64].
    But these are considered late Qianlong period [ca. 1770-1800].
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

George
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« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2019, 08:50:17 am »

A most amazing bottle Adrian !
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Wattana
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2019, 02:19:28 am »

Adrian,
Thank you for yet another interesting bottle.
Do you have a photo of the stopper on its own?
I would also like to see the bottle "sans stopper".

Best,
Tom
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Joey
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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2019, 04:47:19 am »

Dear Adrian,

    These always had flared necks originally, and that Amber neck is not wide enough to encompass the original flared neck; so it must have gotten damaged and been ground down. I would say that at least 60% of the leaf bottles I've seen had ground down and reglazed necks.
But I've never before seen an applied Amber neck.

Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Luke
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2019, 08:04:05 am »

Hi Adrian,

Lovely bottle! I think the neck repair has been tastefully done too.

Best
Luke
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forestman
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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2019, 02:54:49 am »

Adding a picture looking into the neck of the bottle.

It looks like the porcelain neck is glazed on it's top edge and doesn't show any signs of being damaged so this may be an example without the flared neck as it wouldn't show glaze on the top of the neck if it had been ground down.

Regards, Adrian.


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Joey
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« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2019, 03:50:32 pm »

Dear Adrian,
 
     As far as I know, all examples were originally made with flared necks.
You would have glaze visible on the mouth area, if the flared part was ground off, changing it to a straight from a flared, neck.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

forestman
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2019, 08:52:11 am »

Dear Joey,

Here's the answer as I managed to gently prise the collar off the neck and it's pictured beside the one sold out of the Dr Martin Roshco collection which has the neck as it would have been. I assume mine must have had damage to the neck so was "adapted" cleverly to cover the damage in a way that fitted the bottle shape.

Regards, Adrian.


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Joey
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2019, 03:21:24 pm »

Dear Adrian,

      Marty Roshko's bottle had its flared neck ground down a bit and reglazed. My bottle with the pristine neck [Clare Chu 'nibbled' on it all the way around, to make sure it was indeed pristine. The repair is always softer than the genuine glazed part.], had double the flared neck of Marty's example.

    And I've seen at least a dozen others with the same widely flared neck as my perfect example. My restored example had a bit less flare to the neck than Marty's bottle pictured above.

Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

forestman
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2019, 01:08:32 pm »

Dear Joey,

Thank you for the information on these bottles and your continuing insight into people and their collections  Grin

Regards, Adrian.
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2019, 11:39:54 am »

Dear Adrian,

      I'm always happy to share whatever knowledge I've amassed. Hard to believe it is 49 years since I bought my first snuff bottles...
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Bob
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« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2021, 11:41:08 am »

I was browsing old posts and came across this leaf bottle topic, and thought I'd share this bottle that is the same as the one pictured in the Bob Stevens "The Collectors Book of Snuff Bottles". Less refined than your example, but it does have the flared lip. Described as 18th Century.  Bob


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richy88
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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2021, 11:01:37 pm »

Hi Adrian & Bob

Nice example.

I have one in my collection too. But in mine, the neck and collar design seems to be slightly different.

Regards.


Richard


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Richard from sunny Singapore
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Bob
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« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2021, 05:24:11 am »

 What a beautiful bottle! Same mold as Adrian's. Much more elegant than my example. Thanks for posting it.  Bob
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« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2021, 03:43:23 pm »

Dear Richard,

     Yours has the original broadly flared neck.
Bob, I like yours as well, and would call it 'robustly' potted' rather than cruder.
But the neck on yours is partially ground down, from what I can see. And then possibly reglazed.
But the edge looks different from the rest of the neck.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Bob
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« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2021, 08:03:34 pm »

Thank you for the input Joey. You are a true diplomat! "Robustly potted", I love it! I had never considered that the neck may have been ground since it was identical to the only other examples I've seen. The one in the Bob Stevens book and another in a 2003 Sotheby's London catalog from 2003. I took a good look at my bottle with a jewelers loupe and it does not appear to have been re-glazed. There are fine glaze cracks that start at the inner lip rim and continue over the outer lip rim and down the neck. The whole bottle has the same fine lines and same glazing. Maybe the whole bottle re-glazed? Thanks again for the information  Bob


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