Click On Globe To View Forum Visitors From Around The World

About This Forum

This snuff bottle community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert collectors. Topics are intended to cover all aspects and types of bottle collecting. To include trials, tribulations, identifying, researching, and much more.

Among other things, donations help keep the forum free from Google type advertisements, and also make it possible to purchases additional photo hosting MB space.

Forum Bottle in the Spotlight

Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
December 04, 2022, 05:00:09 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Contact Login Register  

Identification of maks

Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
Author Topic: Identification of maks  (Read 1187 times)
rosegl
Full Member
***
Posts: 140


« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2018, 01:42:32 am »

Wise saying, Tom!

Best

Georges
Report Spam   Logged
Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 10459


« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2018, 02:41:50 am »

Dear Tom B.,

     I agree with Georges' assessment! Roll Eyes  Grin
Best,
Joey


Wise saying, Tom!

Best

Georges
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

forestman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 826


« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2018, 04:28:22 am »

Dear Joey and Tom B,

I have to take serious issue with you here.

A newly made bottle has to cool down from the kiln, be transported to a retailer, be bought and then photographed before appearing on this forum which would have to take at the very least a week so by giving a possible date as recent as yesterday you are doing a considerable disservice to some bottles as they may be at least seven times older than you are suggesting  Grin

Regards, Adrian.
Report Spam   Logged

Jungle Jas
Full Member
***
Posts: 248


« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2018, 07:28:22 am »

Dear Joey and Tom B,

I have to take serious issue with you here.

A newly made bottle has to cool down from the kiln, be transported to a retailer, be bought and then photographed before appearing on this forum which would have to take at the very least a week so by giving a possible date as recent as yesterday you are doing a considerable disservice to some bottles as they may be at least seven times older than you are suggesting  Grin

Regards, Adrian.
Well done, how very true.  Roll Eyes Kiss
Report Spam   Logged
rosegl
Full Member
***
Posts: 140


« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2018, 08:02:27 am »

Dear all,
I need your expertise again! Two more inquieries about marks, this time probably "shopmarks".
The first one belongs to a molded Mu Wang bottle (formerly in the collection of Alex Cussons, illustrated by Moss, CSB 5), the second one to a molded and carved bottle with immortals.
Thanks for your help
Georges


* SB 064-Mu Wang 1.jpg (59.08 KB, 310x445 - viewed 37 times.)

* SB 064-Mu Wang (Boden).jpg (180.4 KB, 1311x783 - viewed 32 times.)

* SB 115 -1 Kopie.jpg (525.9 KB, 592x768 - viewed 42 times.)

* SB 115 Marke Kopie.jpg (151.89 KB, 2075x1219 - viewed 25 times.)
Report Spam   Logged
Rube
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 829


« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2018, 09:47:49 am »

Georges,

I'm no help with regard to the marks, but I do like your bottles!  I'm fond of the Horses of Mu Wang theme.

Cheers,

Rube.
Report Spam   Logged

Rube, 4th Generation Collector

Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 10459


« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2018, 09:53:29 am »

Hardy Har Har... Roll Eyes Grin


Dear Joey and Tom B,

I have to take serious issue with you here.

A newly made bottle has to cool down from the kiln, be transported to a retailer, be bought and then photographed before appearing on this forum which would have to take at the very least a week so by giving a possible date as recent as yesterday you are doing a considerable disservice to some bottles as they may be at least seven times older than you are suggesting  Grin

Regards, Adrian.
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

rosegl
Full Member
***
Posts: 140


« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2018, 09:56:02 am »

Rube, thanks for your interest!
Best Georges
Report Spam   Logged
Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 10459


« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2018, 10:03:09 am »

Dear Georges,

     The Mu Wang Horses bottle, is confusing me, and I can't tell you anything about it.
But the second bottle is a superb molded and polychromed porcelain, definitely
late Qianlong/or Jiaqing. A serious pity about the damage to foot and neck.
I will look at its mark.
Best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

rosegl
Full Member
***
Posts: 140


« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2018, 04:12:04 am »

Dear Joey,
thanks for your comment. Why is the Mu Wang bottle confusing you? There are two pictures of it, one in CSB 5 (from 1969) and one in a Sotheby's catalogue (from 1975). I don't know more about it.
Concerning the damaged polychromed bottle: I bought it in 1979 in Zürich despite of the silver collar because it appealed to me and the (old?) repair seemed to be a sign of appreciation of a former owner.
Best
Georges
Report Spam   Logged
Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 10459


« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2018, 02:55:37 pm »

Dear Georges,

      Because I don't like it and am not sure of the dating.
If I owned the 2nd one, I'd want to repair it with gold lacquer, to return it to pristine shape, while 'flaunting' its repair.
Best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

rosegl
Full Member
***
Posts: 140


« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2018, 04:17:58 am »

Dear Joey,
thanks for your straightforward comment. Why should you like the Mu Wang bottle? I do!!! Smiley Look at dynamism shown in the head of one of the horses!
As far as dating is concerned, I'd guess 2nd half of the 19th c. or even beginning of the 20th. I was struck by the suspect number of snuff bottles molded in high relief with different decorations (e.g. ladies and children in a garden setting), often with apocryphal Qianlong marks, that were sold at various auctions recently, as for example in the Barron collection. They are usually dated 1820-1880. This must have been a very popular technique.

Concerning the 2nd bottle: I read somewhere that the mark points to Jiaqing, but I can't remember where I found this notice. A second reparation (e.g. with gold laquer) could be an idea indeed. Where do you think could it be done?

Best

Georges



* SB 064-Mu Wang (Kopf).jpg (122.62 KB, 632x659 - viewed 31 times.)
Report Spam   Logged
Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 10459


« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2018, 12:28:19 pm »

Dear Georges,

    As a wise man said, personal choice is personal. That's what makes a horse-race!
 Grin

  Contact Susan Page, who used to work for Bob Hall but is now a dealer in her own right.
She helped me get a Jadeite snuff dish repaired with gold lacquer.
susan@snuffbottlepages.com
tel. +44 208 864 0595
mob. +44
  • 7721 747 153   [the '0' is added and the +44 deleted, if dialed in UK]

Best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Tom B.
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 626



« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2018, 03:32:17 pm »

Dear Georges,

A shame about the condition of your molded bottle, but at least you purchased it that way.  It is a nice bottle just the same.

I agree with Joey's dating to late Qianlong or Jiaqing and would be inclined toward the former circa 1790-1800.  I have a Jiaqing M&P example in my archives that was sold by Bonham's Hong Kong:

Lot 91
A MOULDED 'FAMILLE-ROSE' PORCELAIN 'LEGEND OF THE WHITE SNAKE' SNUFF BOTTLE
Imperial kilns, Jingdezhen, Jiaqing iron-red four-character seal mark and of the period, 1796–1820
Sold for HK$ 50,400 (US$ 6,433) inc. premium
FINE CHINESE ART
25 May 2011, 10:00 HKT  HONG KONG, ISLAND SHANGRI-LA HOTEL

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19305/lot/91/


Report Spam   Logged

Best regards,

Tom B.

Tom B.
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 626



« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2018, 03:34:07 pm »

Continued -

As we can see the enamels are less intense and the modeling is less crisp on the (in my opinion) later example sold in Hong Kong.

Best regards,

Tom B.
Report Spam   Logged

Best regards,

Tom B.

Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 10459


« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2018, 08:43:02 pm »

Dear Tom B.,

     Superb example as well! Thank you for posting it.
best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Steven
Global Moderator / Forum Detective
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4099



« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2018, 08:54:40 pm »

I echo what Joey says.Smiley

Superb example as well! Thank you for posting it.

I like the Georges's bottles as well, I had hard time to figure out the mark, will try to find some help from my friends and get back.

Happy collecting!

Steven

Report Spam   Logged

rosegl
Full Member
***
Posts: 140


« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2018, 03:33:47 pm »

Hello everyone,

thanks for your appreciation of my bottle. Yes, it has a repaired collar, from the beginning (sold in 1979 with the usual provenane "property of a lady)", but I have seen several similarly amended examples of that period... I still hope the identification of the mark will help to date the bottle. I remember Moss illustrated a dfferent one, but with some "family similarity" in CSB 5, sometimes with the comment that marc x was typical for perod y, but mostlx without proper explanation

What do others think about Joey's suggestion to repair it a second time? Would it rehearse the appeal and/or the value of this object - or not?

Just for the pleasure of sharing find here the reverse side of the bottle



Happy weekend

Georges


* SB 115 -2 Kopie.jpg (364.46 KB, 450x600 - viewed 35 times.)
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 03:54:19 pm by rosegl » Report Spam   Logged
Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 10459


« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2018, 04:57:33 pm »

Wow! I love the reverse as well.
Wonderful bottle.
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

rosegl
Full Member
***
Posts: 140


« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2018, 03:13:52 pm »

Thank you Joey for your enthousiasm!

Georges
Report Spam   Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal