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December 04, 2022, 03:51:26 pm
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Beware with false peachbloom glazed bottles

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Author Topic: Beware with false peachbloom glazed bottles  (Read 734 times)
Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« on: September 05, 2018, 04:48:27 pm »

Dear all,
since Joey mentioned in a recent thread how dangerous are the thermal shocks for hard materials like porcelain and glass, I take the opportunity to alert about a particular type of crackled snuff bottles, something that I think I have already mentioned before.
Look at the pictures below. That bottle has been sold on ebay recently, and it was described as being “peachbloom glazed”. It is a false peachbloom bottle.
Peachbloom glaze is a particular type of glaze that has been developed during the Kangxi period. It is rare, and the production process is difficult, hence the result is very variable.
Now, if you look at that bottle and compare it with a real peachbloom Kangxi item, you will see that the appearance is completely different.
Besides that, and most important, if you look carefully you will see that the pink color is not in the glaze, but only in the cracks of the glaze. That is very easy to obtain.
If you take a white bottle and you heat it at high temperature, let say 600 degrees Celsius, and then you put it into water, the thermal shock will generate a net of minute crackles like those seen on that bottle.
After that, you spray over the bottle a special liquid, called Penetrant or Dye penetrant liquid, which usually has that particular type of pink. That liquid is extremely fluid and its purpose is for inspection of crackles or fissures in the industry of mechanical and ceramic parts. Being extremely fluid, it is absorbed by the cracks; then you wipe off the liquid from the surface of the piece, and in that way you will see the cracks which are evidenced by the color of the liquid.
In my previous job we did this test many times on ceramic insulators. It is a pity that I do not have pictures of the pieces, because you would see that the appearance is identical to that of the bottle.
I know that because of my previous experience, as said; but you can verify that I am right by looking at the base of the bottle. As you see, there are the pink colored cracks on the unglazed base too, meaning with all evidence that the color is not in the glaze.
Hence that bottle is not peachbloom glazed, it is a fake peachbloom bottle. Beware if you are tempted to bid on such bottles.
Frankly I was tempted to bid on that bottle, because by the picture of the base the bottle is an old one, but I didn’t because it is hard to remove that purposely made false color. It is a pity, the bottle was a nice one but the seller destroyed it in the tentative of getting more money from it. 
Beware.
Kind regards
Giovanni


* Crackl1.jpg (113.26 KB, 751x959 - viewed 44 times.)

* Crackl2.jpg (173.4 KB, 1042x958 - viewed 43 times.)

* Crackl3.jpg (165.39 KB, 977x961 - viewed 31 times.)
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Joey
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« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2018, 07:50:27 am »

Dear Giovanni,

      Facinating! Thank you.
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

aidan31
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2018, 08:28:45 am »

Dear Giovanni-

Thank you for such a clear and informative post about what some sellers term "peach bloom" bottles.  Your explanation of the manufacture of pink crackle porcelain bottles was certainly up to your usual standard.  Your knowledge of and experience with Chinese porcelains in general is an asset to all collectors.

Many thanks,
Rick
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Jungle Jas
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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2018, 10:54:15 am »

Hi Giovanni,

   I to was looking to bid on this bottle,  but it was at stupid o clock at night and I fell asleep watching a film! Embarrassed  It didn't bother me that it wasn't the real thing I just liked it as I hadn't one like it in my collection.  I found your comments very interesting. If you were in the ceramics industry recently you will undoubtable be aware that you can now by crackle glazes that produce the cracks in the kiln, this save you risking breaking the bottle when you cool it down. I only know this as I grow bonsai and used to make my own pots when I lived in a more accessible part off the UK.

  Regards Jason.
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Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2018, 04:00:37 pm »

Thank you dear Joey and Rick.
Dear Jason, do you mean that you would have bought it knowing that it has been artificially “improved”, read “destroyed”?
It sounds really strange to me. Although sure of being it an old bottle, I would not buy it even if not treated with the penetrating color, simply because the crackle is not natural, at least not that intended by the artisan who made the bottle.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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Jungle Jas
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« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2018, 02:35:09 am »

Dear Giovanni,

   The answer to that is yes, I looked as carefully and could see there was no structural damage and as I liked the effect I would have bought it. However I am not like a lot of collectors on this site. I will buy new if I like it and the quality is there. Although I obversely prefer old.


   Kind regards Jason.
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Joey
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« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2018, 09:13:52 pm »

Dear Giovanni,

    DITTO! [A "Blazing Saddles" reference, since I had nothing better to contribute!],
Best,
Joey


Dear Giovanni-

Thank you for such a clear and informative post about what some sellers term "peach bloom" bottles.  Your explanation of the manufacture of pink crackle porcelain bottles was certainly up to your usual standard.  Your knowledge of and experience with Chinese porcelains in general is an asset to all collectors.

Many thanks,
Rick
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

ileney
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2018, 02:58:44 pm »

Is this also a new bottle or is it a crackle bottle that had pink in the cracks added a long time ago, as they claim? They don't claim that it is peachbloom glaze, but do claim it is 19th century. https://www.ebay.com/itm/19th-C-Chinese-Crackle-Glazed-Meiping-Form-White-Porcelain-Snuff-Bottle/252340176296?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D1b759f8cf1954a6ab8c970b6c78077ff%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D202438539106%26itm%3D252340176296&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Afa58d27f-bab2-11e8-b140-74dbd1801b01%7Cparentrq%3Ae915e2021650ab4c8352f8d7fff60a0d%7Ciid%3A1
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Rube
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« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2018, 06:19:37 pm »

Ileney,
I’m glad you posted another one, because I’m curious about this type after Giovanni’s post. If I had to guess, based on his post, the crackle on the foot is the giveaway?

Cheers,
Rube
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Rube, 4th Generation Collector

Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2018, 02:33:24 am »

Dear Ileney,
that bottle is a new one, while the one that I posted is an old nice bottle, pity of the “make up”.
I am posting here a side by side comparison. You can see the better shape, better potting, and the old base and paste.
The description made by the seller is off.
He says: “Pink Crackled Glazed over a white background”.
The correct definition should be: “White crackled glaze, pink stained”. (Actually the glaze is transparent, but it is usually called white glaze because of the white porcelain behind it.)
He also says: “raised and glazed foot rim”. That is not true, the foot rim is not glazed as usual, as you see by its matt surface.
About these stained bottles, what I do not know is if there is a way to totally eliminate that penetrant dye, may be by heating it. That could be interesting. In fact, if I knew how to go back to the original state I would have been interested in purchasing that bottle.
Dear Rube, yeas, you are correct. Since I knew the typical appearance of that penetrant dye on porcelain, having seen it many times in my previous job, I recognized it immediately. But without that experience, the fact that the pink can bee seen on the unglazed foot is clearly telling us that it has nothing to do with the glaze.
Kind regards
Giovanni


* 1.jpg (73.87 KB, 653x595 - viewed 31 times.)

* 2.jpg (97.55 KB, 885x548 - viewed 37 times.)
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ileney
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« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2018, 02:28:34 pm »

Giovanni,
Thank you very much for the information. I was very suspicious of the claim that this new bottle was old and am glad to have confirmed that it is new.
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Rube
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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2018, 08:01:34 am »

Giovanni,

After you mentioned it, I'm seeing these bottles everywhere!  Can you provide us with a few pics of genuine peachbloom bottles for reference?

Cheers,

Rube.
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Rube, 4th Generation Collector

Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2018, 09:36:54 am »

Dear Rube,
it is very easy. I have not seen a peachbloom glazed bottle, if they exist.
Look at the last picture that I have shown, the bottle on the right side, which has the base glazed. You can see that the pink is only in the cracks, the glaze has no color, it is white.
Peachbloom glaze is a colored glaze, then you should see all the base pinkish, not only the cracks.
Peachbloom glaze can vary a lot in color. If you google for “peachbloom vase”, you will see real peachbloom glazes, and you will see how different it can be.
Instead, I did google for “peachbloom snuff bottle” and I have found any. Almost all are pink stained, or red glazed bottles.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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Rube
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2018, 12:25:46 pm »

Giovanni,

Well, that answers that!

Cheers,

Rube.
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Rube, 4th Generation Collector

Wattana
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« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2018, 04:55:45 am »

Dear Giovanni,

Excuse my late response - I was travelling in September when this thread was active.
Please look at the attached images from an old Bonhams auction. The first group of bottles has what I would describe (following your lead) as 'crackle glaze with a pink stain'. Should the second group then be described as 'crackle glaze with grey or brown stain'?

Regards,
Tom


* Crackle glaze1 Bonhams SF-lo.jpg (52.91 KB, 840x538 - viewed 30 times.)

* Crackle glaze2 Bonhams SF.jpg (39.42 KB, 840x538 - viewed 29 times.)
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Hooked since 1971

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« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2018, 12:26:38 pm »

Dear Tom,
those are bottles with crackled glaze, intentionally crackled, and then stained. Generally known as Ge glaze. Ge ware are known since Song dynasty.
The crackles were often stained with tea, but also with other substances.
In some case, the vessel is fired, then after cooling stained with a dark color, then fired again a second time, during which a secondary crackling is developed, and then stained with a lighter color.
These are called “iron and gold thread”.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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