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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
December 04, 2022, 03:11:29 pm
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Porcelain spade snuff bottle

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Author Topic: Porcelain spade snuff bottle  (Read 577 times)
forestman
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« on: August 13, 2017, 11:01:24 am »

One of a large group of bottles bought at auction recently.

Height is 62mm. Stopper seems to be glass imitating agate and the spoon has been broken off. There is a Qianlong nian zhi mark in iron red on a concave foot.

Over to others to judge if it is of the period or not.

Regards, Adrian.


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George
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2017, 11:24:26 am »

I think it is good Adrian..

The paintings really look to be period to me..  The bright red floral design on the sides bugs me a little, but without comparing to others I can't say if that is ok or not..

I like it very much and congratulations !  Look forward to seeing the others within the lot !
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joearp
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2017, 06:22:34 pm »

I like it very much. A keeper for sure.
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AntPeople
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 10:41:05 pm »

The way of painting and also the colour don't seems to be right for me... also it seems quite new without much wear

Pin
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Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2017, 12:52:19 am »

Dear Adrian,
I am sharing Pin's opinion. That red is too much red and it must be considered that the over glaze iron red enamel is, together with gold gilding, the one more prone to wear.
Besides that, what is not convincing is the painting style too. Instead, what is really well done is the rock.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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forestman
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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2017, 02:24:30 am »

Thank you all for your comments.

Porcelain is not something I know anything about as yet and the very lengthy text in the Treasury of Chinese Snuff Bottles is something I need to give some time to fully take on board so I have some chance of picking up on these variations that separate the good, bad and ugly.

Regards, Adrian.
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Wattana
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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2017, 10:12:09 am »

Hi Adrian,

I concur with Pin and Giovanni's comments, especially about the intensity of the red.
 
I suspect the artist was copying the same subject matter as found on this enameled porcelain bottle from the Daoguang period. Compare the delicacy and subdued palette.

Tom



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Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2017, 02:32:44 pm »

Well done dear Tom! Nice reference you have found.
Giovanni
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Joey
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2017, 03:43:23 pm »

Dear Adrian,

     I agree with the opinion that the bottle is modern, but they got the Qianlong mark down perfectly.
Now if they knew how to give it realistic wear, it would be scary.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

forestman
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« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2017, 02:00:35 am »

Having compared mine to other examples I can see now that the red is off. Pity they didn't spend as long on getting the colour right as they did on the mark which as Joey said is well rendered, better than a lot of the real marks !

Regards, Adrian.
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Joey
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« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2017, 03:11:51 am »

Dear Adrian,

    You've confused me now. What did you mean by "better than a lot of the real marks !" 
All genuine Imperial marks are at least as good as this one.

Did you mean non-Imperial marks which are contemporary with the correct period?
In that, you might be correct, though I doubt it.

If you meant non-Imperial Qianlong nianzhi marks produced in the 19th C., I would definitely agree with you.

Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Wattana
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« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2017, 03:41:01 am »


Porcelain is not something I know anything about as yet and the very lengthy text in the Treasury of Chinese Snuff Bottles is something I need to give some time to fully take on board so I have some chance of picking up on these variations that separate the good, bad and ugly.


Adrian,

If you have Volume 6 of the "Treasury" set, you will probably find everything you need in there to equip your eye to pick out the genuine article. Having said that, the fakers are getting better and better at fooling collectors as the prices of the genuine bottles keep spiralling. And porcelain is one of the fakers' favourite mediums. But at the end of the day nothing beats actually handling genuine old bottles, of whatever material. 

Tom
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Rube
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« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2017, 08:26:32 am »

Tom,

I agree with Giovanni, that this reference is very helpful for comparison purposes.

Thanks,
Rube.
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Rube, 4th Generation Collector

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