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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
January 26, 2020, 03:04:32 pm
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Cloisone Bottle To Share ..

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Author Topic: Cloisone Bottle To Share ..  (Read 1723 times)
Rube
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« Reply #100 on: August 23, 2018, 08:18:18 am »

Inn Bok,

I like your cloisonne bottle, especially how the shape of the bottle complements the shou motif.

Congratulations,

Rube.
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Joey
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« Reply #101 on: August 23, 2018, 04:19:22 pm »

Dear Inn Bok,

     It looks very nice, and might be old [as early as the 1850s], but could equally be from the late 20th C. [1990s].
Truth is, I can't tell over the 'Net. Ask Steven, etc. Others have a much better 'eye' than me over the computer screen.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

forestman
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« Reply #102 on: April 30, 2019, 02:09:02 am »

Hi All,

Once again there hasn't been too many bottles posted recently so I thought I would post this bottle for comments as Cloisonné is not something I know about but decided to fill a gap in my collection by adding a couple of cloisonné bottles that I left tentative bids on in a European auction which, after some delay, I found out I had won, not for any high price and this one, which I prefer to the other, was the cheaper of the two.

It is 62mm high minus the stopper and is unmarked so isn't trying to be something it may well not be. Whether old or new I find it very attractive and marvel at the amount of work that has gone into it. The recessed base is unenamelled whereas some other examples that have been posted have enamelled bases, is this age related ? The design is very detailed and there is shading of colours, most noticeable in the 4 white and blue flowers on each side. The other cylindrical bottle has noticeable sand polishing marks whilst this bottle has a much finer polish.

Any comments would be welcomed.

Regards, Adrian.


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Rube
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« Reply #103 on: April 30, 2019, 06:35:53 am »

Adrian,

I'm glad someone shared a bottle on the Forum!  I like cloisonne and all the colors and detail, even though that usually indicates less age.
Can't comment on the base.

Cheers,

Rube
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Rube, 4th Generation Collector

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« Reply #104 on: April 30, 2019, 10:33:04 am »

Adrian,

Thanks for sharing your bottle. I am one of my cloisonne bottles that has similar motifs to yours.

Regards

Inn Bok


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Joey
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« Reply #105 on: May 01, 2019, 05:39:11 am »

Dear Adrian and Inn Bok,

     Both bottles look wonderful. I used to always say that because of the close detail, these had to be late [ie., mid-20th or even later].
Clare & Michael Chu corrected me when we looked at Ming and Qing Cloissones in the collection of the BM in London, during the 2017 London convention.
They did agree re. which shades were older, and re. 'muddiness' of colours as a sign of age or lack thereof.

  Based on that, I'd tentatively date both bottles to ca. 1800-1900.
'Tentatively', because I'm covering my posterior... Roll Eyes Shocked Grin
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

forestman
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« Reply #106 on: May 01, 2019, 07:03:58 am »

Dear Joey, Inn Bok and Rube,

Thank you for the comments. It seems strange that cloisonné is perhaps the one area of snuff bottles where dating them seems to be a problem.

One thing I can see when looking at my two bottles and Inn Bok's bottle is the pattern around the bases and tops of the neck are all different and on B and W bottles, some overlays and enamelled bottles these can give clues to the age of a bottle so is there anything there to go by ?


The flowers on Inn Bok's bottle have a curl to some of the petals that shows a bit more artistry in rendering them compared to those on my bottle. They also stand out more because of the background colour than the ones on my bottle.


Regards, Adrian.
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George
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« Reply #107 on: May 01, 2019, 09:12:43 am »

I like them both very much, but that first one is stunning..

I think cloisonné can be harder to date, but there are some basic guidelines with size, pitting, and colors used.
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« Reply #108 on: May 11, 2019, 05:17:27 am »

Dear Joey,

Following your remark in the eralier post, I am glad you do not insist now that cloissone bottles with dense motif must be new works ( though I noted your need to cover your posterior !).

When I last visited LKC in Perth, he loaned to my australian friend and me for reading, a publication by HUgh Moss in early 70's. In this old material resource, Moss included some pictures of Qing cloisonne bottles and one of them attracted my attention ( see attachments ).
The text is on item 279. Hugh Moss gave a span of 1800-1920 for the dating.
The picture shows the surface finish of the cloisoone bottle nto be rather glossy still and not dull.
You may not need to cover your posterior anymore, I think.

Inn Bok


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Joey
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« Reply #109 on: May 11, 2019, 08:32:37 am »

Dear Inn Bok,

      I still think that bottle was made between 1950 and 6 months before Moss published it.
Show me an illustration with a bottle like that from before 1950, and we'll talk.

    More detailed, yes possibly. That detailed, on such a small surface?
No.
Sorry.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #110 on: May 11, 2019, 11:52:09 am »

Hello All

It's  unusual for me  to  comment  on  anything  outside  of  inside  painting    (funny  accidental  pun there   Smiley )

However  all the   talk about  Cloisonne reminds  me that  there  used  to be a  Cloisonne  factory  close to the  Great  Wall  at  Badaling   which was a  standard  tourist  stop  on the  way back  from   seeing the  Great  Wall

There  was  also a  big  exhibition room  next  door  where,  back  in  2004,  I  bought  my  second- ever  IPB  (and I still don't  know  who  painted  it )

Does  anyone else remember that  Cloisonne  factory ?

Cheers

Peter
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