100 Years of Concentric Rings

[bambooforrest]

Everyone, thanks for your input. I do not believe I have seen another concentric ring bottle with this decoration. Does anyone know exactly how these are made? They look to be etched and covered in a heavy glaze.

[George]

Everyone, thanks for your input. I do not believe I have seen another concentric ring bottle with this decoration. Does anyone know exactly how these are made? They look to be etched and covered in a heavy glaze.

It is a Anhua decorated bottle. Joey mentioned and neither have I seen one of these with concentric rings. The decoration is made by being incised, carved or mould-impressed.

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

I have one with a five-clawed Imperial dragon in the Dragons section of "In Search of a Dragon".
The late Robert Kleiner OBM felt it was Imperial and 18th C.
I was in San Francisco and had hooked up with the late Wonderful Wesley Kirkholm OBM to preview
an auction of snuff bottles and other Chinese works of Art at Butterfields & Butterfields, which is now part
of the Bonhams empire.
Our mutual friend Dessa Goddard was in charge there, then.
I found the Anhua decorated bottle and left a bid of US$2,000 with Dessa, because we were being picked up by the
late Margaret Polak OBM to go to lunch together.
At the preview a man who I immediately identified as a fellow Jew, was previewing along with his Filipina girlfriend.
He had a cloth beach-style tote bag out of which was sticking out a copy of my 1987 Israel Museum catalogue
[w/ soft burgundy cover].
 He told me not to look at the Anhua bottle, which has waves at the bottom and clouds & bats at the top in underglaze blue,
because it was a 'medicine bottle', and therefore not worth purchasing.
Due to my Aspergers, I wanted to tell him how rare it was. But I asked G-D To Help me keep quiet, and HE Did...
Yup, Charll, I know how rare THAT is...

Wesley dragged me out, I gave my bid to Dessa, and we joined Margaret outside and drove to a Thai restaurant where we met Vince Fausone.
We had a great lunch, and I returned to find that I'd acquired the bottle for US$125 hammer [!], thanks to the other guy telling everyone not to waste
time on a 'medicine bottle'.
I was standing in line to pay and receive my new treasure, and the guy says to me, " I TOLD you not to waste money on a medicine bottle!"
"Now that it's mine, and at a bargain price, I can tell you that it might be a medicine bottle, but it is an 18th C. 'Anhua' or 'Hidden Decoration' bottle with
a five clawed Imperial dragon, from the Imperial Porcelain Works in Jingdezhen, made during the reign of the Qianlong Emperor!
And to thank you, I'm prepared to autograph my catalogue for you."

He looks at me like I'm crazy, and Wesley says to him, "This is Joseph Baruch Silver, known to friends as Joey.
You've a copy of his Israel Museum Exhibition catalogue in your tote bag."
He expressed disbelief, so I asked Dessa to state what my top bid had been for the bottle.
"US$2,000 hammer, and if you weren't such a good friend, i'd have described it as a rare Imperial Anhua decorated bottle.
But the intern who didn't recognise it, neglected to properly describe it, and I'm not meant to use someone's expertise
against them. Congratulations on a real sleeper!"

In 2014, at the ICSBS Hong Kong convention, a new collector, Japanese but working for an Israeli diamond dealer in Hong Kong,
paid a huge amount for one with a four character Qianlong Nianzhi mark. Gorgeous, but he'd seen it first.

Best,
joey

[rpfstoneman]

'Anhua' or 'Hidden Decoration' bottle with a five clawed Imperial dragon.

If you go to the first post on this thread, you'll see a 'Anhua' concentric ring bottle in my collection.  It is a well, highly detailed, incised five clawed dragon with cobalt blue eyes.  A typical pillar dragon bottle design.  The bottle lip was damaged in the past, and the repair was to grind the lip down. The ivory stopper collar blends and matches well with the ground lip.

I'll take some individual pics of this bottle and add it to this thread.

Charll 

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Charll,

    I totally forgot about your bottle.
Wonderful example though the neck damage is a pity.
Best,
Joey

[Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush]

Dear John,
the decoration is made by incising the body before the firing, when it is in leather state, and then glazing it. The anhua decoration born during Ming Dynasty, especially for cups, in which case the decoration is visible in backlight thanks to the open form of the vessel. 
In the case of closed forms, like the snuff bottle or vases, then it is barely visible.
I have a meiping form snuff bottle with anhua decoration representing waves with emerging rocks under a cloudy sky. I have assembled myself a series of mini LEDs that I can introduce in the bottle to better see the secret decoration. You can see the bottle with the inside lighting here:
https://www.xipangu.co.uk/mangialupo/?product=plate-with-chenghua-mark-1740-1770
But it is much better to look at big vases, like my Kangxi vase with masterfully incised dragon that you cans see here:
https://www.xipangu.co.uk/mangialupo/?product=w22-a-white-baluster-anhua-dragons-vase-kangxi
At the following link you can find, although the base is not shown, an anhua snuff bottle that according to Bonhams it has a base like your one:
https://www.bonhams.com/auction/24470/lot/8029/a-white-porcelain-anhua-snuff-bottle-19th-century/
Kind regards
Giovanni

[bambooforrest]

Giovanni, thanks so much for the information. I had not thought of photographing it with the light inside.

[bambooforrest]

Giovanni, when I put my light inside the bottle the decoration is obscured by the rings inside the bottle. Is yours also made on a wheel?

[Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush]

Dear John,
how strange. Of the many bottles that I have inspected with inside lightning, I have never found one with visible potting rings.
I m not sure, but I think that all the cylindrical bottles are made on the wheel. The later ones most probably are slip casted but in that case, it is easy to spot them.
All what I can think is that in the case of your bottle the potter was not interested in paying good care for the inner finishing.
Giovanni

[rpfstoneman]

Giovanna,

What John is describing is what I've referred to as 'coil ring construction'.  Many of of my older dragon designed bottles have been made in this manner.  Just do a search above with the wording 'coil ring construction' to see a number of examples as John sees on the inside of his bottle.

Charll

[rpfstoneman]

Here's another dragon pillar bottle of ribbed coil ring construction.  A hard paste glaze highly worn to the point the bottle surface has a satin appearance with a soft silky feel when held, one most tactile pleasurable bottles in my collection. 

Blue and White Porcelain Dragon Pillar Bottle:
A hard paste porcelain bottle of cylindrical form with a highly detailed five clawed dragon chasing a pearl amongst flames with its body curled back over its head and encircling the bottle.  A typical blue and white dragon pillar snuff bottle in inky blue tones.  Wonderful use of light and dark blue tones that provides contrasting characterization to the dragon image.  Dragon scales are individually painted with a larger dark blue dot placed at the apex of each scale.  Adorned neck with a ruyi-head collar with a single blue ring below at the transition to the bottle’s shoulder and at the bottle base.  Bottle has a concave unglazed eleven concentric ring base.  Coil ring construction with glazed interior.  Stopper is a carved coiled chi-long in light pink glass imitating coral set on a black glass collar with an ornate simulated ivory spoon.  Satiny, silky, bottle surface that has a soft, lustrous, feel.  Height is 3.08 inches (7.8 cm) without stopper by 0.813 (2.7 cm) in diameter. 

Period: Imperial kilns, Jingdezhen, ca. 1820-1860.

Condition: Surface is highly abraded to a silky finish.  The bottle lip appears to have been chipped in the past.  Restored by grinding the mouth lip to a uniform circular top.  The damage resulted in a fine hairline compression crack within the glazed surface down the side of the bottle.  Overwise it is in very good condition.

Charll

P.S.- this is one of those bottles that was highly used and cherished.  Worth keeping by the owner after being damaged and of such value to warrant the restoration.  As such it remains a highly collectable bottle in my opinion. 

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Charll,

    I do not understand a number of the words you wrote.

What does 'simulated' mean in the following: "...ivory simulated spoon."
Is it 'simulated ivory'? What is 'simulated ivory'?

What does 'grided' mean?
And I could not discern the crack.
And What was done to the mouth?
I don't understand what you meant by your description of the damage and repair to the mouth and neck.
The bottle looks very well painted, etc.
Best,
Joey

[bambooforrest]

Charll, great bottle! Certainly worth keeping. Joey, I think Charll meant grinding the lip rim down. It looks a little smaller than my example....John

[rpfstoneman]

Joey,

As mentioned the lip was chipped in the past.  Someone ground down the lip to remove the chip area; see last picture.

'Simulated' means the same as imitation ivory.

The glaze crack runs from the lip onto the shoulder and down just left of the 'curved up' side of the dragon body. It can be barely seen, but its there upon close inspection.

Charll

[Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush]

Dear Charll,
I know what is coil construction, that was especially made before the invention of the potter wheel and still is in use at some primitive culture.
But how can you say that your bottle is made that way? Perhaps by inside lightening?
Giovanni

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

I thought that spoon was hand carved.
What material is it?
Is it cast plastic?
Best,
Joey

Joey,

As mentioned the lip was chipped in the past.  Someone ground down the lip to remove the chip area; see last picture.

'Simulated' means the same as imitation ivory.

The glaze crack runs from the lip onto the shoulder and down just left of the 'curved up' side of the dragon body. It can be barely seen, but its there upon close inspection.

Charll

[bambooforrest]

Giovanni, it is easy to see the rings by looking at the inside of the bottle.

[Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush]

Dear John, Charll,
last night I did a quick inspection at my porcelain bottles of cylindrical form.
Most of them have a smooth inside and the thickness of the wall is thin, with great translucency.
But I have found three or four (it is not always very clear) that have spiral tracks inside, which are also recognizable for being heavier, and with less translucency due to thicker walls.
I never suspected that before, so thank you very much.
Kind regards
Giovanni

[rpfstoneman]

Giovanni,

As you may have encountered bottles with concentric vertical ribbing (i.e., plausible result of coil ring construction) are thicker walled with uneven thickness.  The result is less transparency than smooth interior wall bottles that are made with traditional porcelain based clays or slip slurry.  Some of the old bottles (late 1790's to early 1800's) that are made of a very fine earthenware bisque with coil ring interiors have very little transparency to the point of being opaque when backlit or interior lit with light.

This is something I have found interesting over the years.  I tend to think that the earthen ware bisque and bottles with the interior ribbing are features of older bottles.  Also, they all seem to have glazed interiors as I recall.  The exact technique that results in these interior rings to me remains speculative, but coil ring body construction could be a source.  Someone out there should have the answer to explain this type of potting, but I have yet to encounter that person to get the definitive answer.

Charll

[Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush]

Dear Charll, I agree that bottles with this feature are coiled. In Italian we call this technique as “cordino” (thin cord). One could think that the inner spirals are made by a scraping tool, but first at all they are rounded, and evenly spaced, thus it must be matter of having being built up with the “cordino” of clay.
My bottles of this type too are glazed inside and surely are old bottles.
Kind regards
Giovanni