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Charll shared this absolutely stunning cobalt blue dragon pillar bottle. Imperial kilns, Jingdezhen.

"The Peter Bentley Snuff Bottle Collection"
and "introduction by Bill Patrick"


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
July 25, 2021, 01:11:26 pm
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Dragon Pillar Snuff Bottles

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Author Topic: Dragon Pillar Snuff Bottles  (Read 4506 times)
richy88
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« Reply #120 on: March 06, 2021, 01:55:31 am »

Hi Charll

Nice find!

I think that they are from the same workshop than from a single person. As most porcelains require several processes to complete, it is not unusual to have them divided accordingly. For example, there will be artisans creating the base shape, followed by the artist who draws and paints the design. Lastly, they will be passed to the person at the kilns for firing.

In short, they are products of a joint effort, unlikely from a single person. Even the drawing process sometimes can be broken down to several segments. For example, in a flowers and bird design piece, the flowers may be painted by one artist, another may paint the bird and another may finish up the side decorations at the neck, base, etc.

It may be fun if we and any other members can showcase and compare their pillar dragon bottles during our upcoming virtual meeting on 12 March!

See you!



Richard

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Richard from sunny Singapore
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rpfstoneman
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« Reply #121 on: March 06, 2021, 03:25:14 pm »


Richard,

Thanks for your comments and additions to the discussion.  Yes, as described by you that is my understanding as well.  It is often a communal effort in the production process.  When I said by the same hand, I was only referring to the painting of the dragon design.  The similarities in each detail of the dragons on each bottle is like one's handwriting or my signature.  It seems just too close to be have been done by different persons unless there is a deliberate attempt to be copied, which of course can be done as well.  My hope (or suspicion) is the these two bottles are part of a set that were made for some occasion or purpose. 

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

richy88
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« Reply #122 on: March 06, 2021, 08:03:23 pm »

Hi Charll

Thanks for your reply.

I think even the painting may not be by the same hand as well. These pieces are usually produced in batches and hence the workshop has standard template for the artist (or worker) to copy and follow. They will have to adhere to the product guidelines set by the workshop. If it deviated too far from the standard design, it will be rejected and hence the similarity of each piece.

Just my observation.



Richard
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bambooforrest
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« Reply #123 on: July 19, 2021, 11:58:15 am »

Charll and Richard, I think the painting of the dragon's head is quite distinctive. It could indicate a certain kiln or artist....John O'Hara
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richy88
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« Reply #124 on: July 19, 2021, 09:16:02 pm »

Hi John

Welcome to the forum!



Richard
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« Reply #125 on: July 20, 2021, 07:10:46 am »

Good to see you here John.

Tom
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« Reply #126 on: July 20, 2021, 07:15:11 am »

Welcome aboard John  Smiley
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« Reply #127 on: July 20, 2021, 08:43:21 am »

It is indeed a beautiful and distinctive bottle.  Agree with your comments John and so happy to see you here.  We will all benefit from the knowledge you share. Hope you will post some of your very special snuff bottles.  Welcome!
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« Reply #128 on: July 20, 2021, 12:53:54 pm »

Thanks to everyone for all your best wishes. An interesting pair I put together. One with concentric rings and one with a Yung cheng mark. Probably by the same hand. Is it possible that the concentric ring bottle was sent to the court and the other for general sale?


* 2 b&w dragons.jpg (1448.44 KB, 1683x1998 - viewed 16 times.)
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Joey
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« Reply #129 on: July 21, 2021, 04:12:19 pm »

Dear John,

     Welcome Aboard!
While I'm a loyal member of the ICSBS, this Forum is much better, more user-friendly, and easier, than the one I've been accessing.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #130 on: July 21, 2021, 04:14:24 pm »

Dear John,

     2 very nice soft-paste B & W SBs.
Best,

Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #131 on: July 22, 2021, 11:51:14 am »

Joey, thanks for the kind words. The ICSBS forum has really been messed up lately....John
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YT
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« Reply #132 on: July 24, 2021, 03:06:17 am »

Dear John,

Welcome to the much more user friendly forum. I am from Singapore and a member of ICSBS too.

Would you like to share more photos of your soft paste Blue and White especially the base?
And some descriptions?

Cheers,
YT
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