Click On Globe To View Forum Visitors From Around The World

General information about the Site

This snuff bottle community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert collectors. Topics are intended to cover all aspects and types of bottle collecting. To include trials, tribulations, identifying, researching, and much more.

Photobucket

Among other things, donations help keep the forum free from Google type advertisements, and also make it possible to purchases additional photo hosting MB space.

Forum Bottle in the Spotlight

Geoff shared this beautiful rutilated quartz crystal children playing bottle painted by Li Xiaojing 李晓静


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
January 23, 2020, 04:38:14 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Contact Login Register  

Puzzled by the seals

Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Puzzled by the seals  (Read 1406 times)
Ruthven
Guest
« on: April 24, 2013, 07:39:47 pm »

Could someone explain the seals to me please?
Do certain artists have a seal explictly for themselves or are they usually denoting a studio or school?

I keep seeing these ones crop up, could someone tell me what they refer to? The bottom one looks rather like western writing turned on its side.



« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 02:55:43 pm by Bottle Guy » Report Spam   Logged

George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 10784



WWW
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2013, 07:50:40 pm »

Not sure about the first one, but the second pic is the Yin seal.  It simply means "seal" , and was used by many artists.
Report Spam   Logged

"Experience Each Experience To The Fullest To Obtain The Most Growth"

My Snuff Bottle Journal
Steven
Global Moderator / Forum Detective
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4064



« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2013, 10:12:18 pm »

Hi Frances,

There are a few kind of seals. like what you mentioned, studio seal, personal seal and decoration seal.

Normally, most of students don't have personal seal on the bottle,only when they become a master, they will have their personal seal on the bottle. For student bottle, it normally have a decoration seal 'yin' seal as George addressed. also a studio seal like the one on the top.

For middle period artists, only a couple of artists had the personal seal, like ding erzhong , zhou leyuan and Yan yutian have their personal seal ,the other artists only had the decoration seals on the bottles.

For modern artists, most of grand masters have their personal seals, some have more than one, one for last name , one for first name like wang xisan.

Steven

 
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 07:32:55 am by Steven » Report Spam   Logged

Ruthven
Guest
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2013, 04:43:37 am »

That is very interesting, thank you. And when an artist signs a bottle do they usually sign it, at the beginning or at the end of the calligraphy ? Looking from left to right that is!  Cheesy 

When I look at the writing on the bottles I think I can now guess what  a 2 year old toddler must feel like when trying to make sense of the National Geographic Editorial page. Grin Grin

Do we have a list of examples of the different seals?

Here is another one I found:



What is the "One Bottle Studio" seal like?  I have seen it mentioned quite often on here.



Report Spam   Logged
deelsb26
Sr. Member
****
Gender: Female
Posts: 324


« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2013, 08:39:34 am »

Frances, thank you for bringing up this topic...I have often wondered about the seals, and where the artist signature would be placed on the bottle...but for some reason have never asked!
Danna
Report Spam   Logged

Danna
Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 9373


« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2013, 11:36:10 am »

Frances and Danna,

     First of all, Chinese inscriptions go from right to left, like all the great languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic,  Cheesy), and in addition to going from right to left, go from top down. So when you see lines of calligraphy, they go from  top to bottom. 
     There may be a title; if so it will often be in Lishu ('Clerical' script, slightly more formal), and the characters a bit larger in size.
     Then, usually in Kaishu ('Standard' script), the first 2 characters will be the Chinese 2 character year date (there are 60 sets, so the same two return in the same order every 60 years). The next two may be the month or season. And then the rest of the inscription.
    At the end, there will be 3 or 4 characters: the artist's full name (like Wang Xisan), or given name (Xisan), or art name, and the character for "painted" last. There is usually another seal or two at the end.
Shabbat Shalom,
   Joey
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 12:44:23 pm by Joey » Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 10784



WWW
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2013, 12:12:21 pm »

That is very interesting, thank you. And when an artist signs a bottle do they usually sign it, at the beginning or at the end of the calligraphy ? Looking from left to right that is!  Cheesy 

Do we have a list of examples of the different seals?

What is the "One Bottle Studio" seal like?  I have seen it mentioned quite often on here.





Here are a couple of One Bottle Studio seals from Wang Xisan's Ji School for you..





Then here are a few additional Yin seal examples from an old Hugh Moss's Chinese Snuff Bottles No. 4 issue. ..



Then in addition to Joeys explanation, here is a good reference from Bob Stevens, "The Collectors Book of Snuff Bottles" that can help understand how the script is presented..


« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 12:41:07 pm by Bottle Guy » Report Spam   Logged

"Experience Each Experience To The Fullest To Obtain The Most Growth"

My Snuff Bottle Journal
Steven
Global Moderator / Forum Detective
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4064



« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2013, 01:04:59 pm »

Thanks Jeoy and George,

I have been thinking to add some seals and signatures samples of the old masters to the forum long time ago as I promised to Giovanni. Wink

I guess its time now.Smiley

Here is some most famous middle period artists' seals and signatures, I noticed that I only can't find any Ye family's personal seal or studio seal only Yin seal or Hua yin seal, most of famous artists have their personal seals...

I will add more when I have a chance.

Steven


* seals.jpg (152.47 KB, 800x400 - viewed 58 times.)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 02:07:42 pm by Steven » Report Spam   Logged

Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 9373


« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2013, 02:59:11 pm »

George & Steven,
 Well done. "A picture is worth a thousand words".
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 10784



WWW
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2013, 03:00:35 pm »

Thank you Steven !

Guess I should do the same and include some known Zhou Loyuan seals here as well.. 

"Yin", ( figs 50, 51, 52, and 53 ) which in fact means simply "seal" was used by many artists. Richard pointed this out in another thread. Used by Chou both on mnay early warks and in conunction with other seals.

"Yuan" ( fig 54 ) which was used throughout his career, often in conjunction with  Yin or "Lo" as separate seals. "Yuan yin" wich means "the seal of Yuan ( fig 55 and 56 ) and was used frequently after 1888.

"Lo yuan" which was used more on his later work, the common form of which is shown in fig 58, two rarer forms in figs, 57, and 59.

Other more unusual seals which appear occasionally are "Chou shih" which means "Mr Chou" ( fig 60 ), "Fang ku" which means "copying the antique" ( fig 61 ) and two others ( figs 62 and 63 ) which have not been able to be translated.


« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 11:07:59 am by George » Report Spam   Logged

"Experience Each Experience To The Fullest To Obtain The Most Growth"

My Snuff Bottle Journal
George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 10784



WWW
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2013, 03:25:52 pm »



Here is some most famous middle period artists' seals and signatures, I noticed that I only can't find any Ye family's personal seal or studio seal only Yin seal or Hua yin seal, most of famous artists have their personal seals...






From part ll, Apricot Grove Studio series, ICSBS journal Autumn 1982..

Seals used by the Ye Family

Report Spam   Logged

"Experience Each Experience To The Fullest To Obtain The Most Growth"

My Snuff Bottle Journal
Steven
Global Moderator / Forum Detective
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4064



« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2013, 05:49:29 pm »

Thank you George!!

obviously I didn't do much study on it.Smiley but the' san' seal and 'zhongsan' seal are very rare.

Steven
Report Spam   Logged

deelsb26
Sr. Member
****
Gender: Female
Posts: 324


« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2013, 06:24:32 pm »

Thanks guys, as always, so helpful and great info!
Danna
Report Spam   Logged

Danna
Ruthven
Guest
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2013, 06:43:26 pm »

Thank you so much this is all very helpful  Kiss
Report Spam   Logged
George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 10784



WWW
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2013, 09:12:24 pm »



obviously I didn't do much study on it.Smiley but the' san' seal and 'zhongsan' seal are very rare.

Steven

I know that our Detective Steven would have found it sooner or later.  Wink
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 02:17:16 am by Bottle Guy » Report Spam   Logged

"Experience Each Experience To The Fullest To Obtain The Most Growth"

My Snuff Bottle Journal
Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 3087



« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2013, 01:48:15 am »

Dear all,
thank you VERY much for starting and contribute to this thread. I will bookmark it.
Giovanni
Report Spam   Logged

rosegl
Full Member
***
Posts: 129


« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2016, 07:25:27 am »

Can anybody help me with these seals (on a red on snowflake overlaid glass bottle)? It represents a bearded man seemingly in a large basket.


* SB 219 (Siegel 2).jpg (14.15 KB, 144x255 - viewed 25 times.)

* SB 219 (Siegel).jpg (43.94 KB, 281x620 - viewed 19 times.)
Report Spam   Logged
George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 10784



WWW
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2019, 11:13:50 am »



Here is some most famous middle period artists' seals and signatures

Just adding Steven's post from another topic showing Yan Yutian seal..  Which seem a little different than that shown in post 265 and 266.
Report Spam   Logged

"Experience Each Experience To The Fullest To Obtain The Most Growth"

My Snuff Bottle Journal
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal