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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
November 26, 2022, 03:56:51 pm
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Underglazed Blue and Copper Red Designs

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Author Topic: Underglazed Blue and Copper Red Designs  (Read 6730 times)
richy88
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« Reply #160 on: November 15, 2022, 03:00:58 am »

Hi John

From the photos, I guessed this is the story of the assassination of the king of state Wu, Liao.

The incident happened during the late Spring and Autumn era, before the warring states period (770 to 476 BC) in the state of Wu.

The Prince of Wu, Gong Zi Guang felt that he should be the legitimate candidate for the throne as he was the eldest in line. Instead, his cousin, Liao had taken the throne.

As such, Gong Zi Guang engaged Zhuan Zhu, a butcher by origin to assassinate the king.

Zhuan Zhu disguised himself as a servant during a dinner hosted by King Liao. He hid a short but sharp sword in the stomach of a fish. While serving the dish to Liao, he suddenly took the sword and killed King Liao. However, the palace guards also killed him.

Upon Liao's death, Gong Zi Guang became the new king of Wu.

Zhuan Zhu was considered one of the five great assassins in Chinese history.

For your information.

Regards.


Richard

« Last Edit: November 16, 2022, 12:30:33 am by richy88 » Report Spam   Logged

Richard from sunny Singapore
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« Reply #161 on: November 15, 2022, 08:08:16 am »

Richard, again your knowledge of Chinese history really impresses me. The next bottle [81mm] also needs an explanation. I have seen this motif before but would like the whole story. From a small auction in 2000.


* CO B&W&R IM1 (2).JPG (116.27 KB, 291x700 - viewed 6 times.)

* CO B&W&R IM2 (2).JPG (119.41 KB, 296x700 - viewed 4 times.)

* CO B&W&R IM3 (2).JPG (125.16 KB, 299x700 - viewed 4 times.)

* CO B&W&R IM4 (2).JPG (120.35 KB, 298x700 - viewed 5 times.)

* CO B&W&R IM5 (2).JPG (118.7 KB, 550x500 - viewed 5 times.)
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Joey
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« Reply #162 on: November 15, 2022, 08:44:18 am »

Dear John,

   I'm sorry, but the mark shown in post # 159 is actually one of the more poorly
 drawn marks I've seen on your bottles.
Look at the mark on the bottle before and the one on the bottle you posted after;
they are much superior.
Having said that, it still could be 'of the period', just not an Imperial mark.

Dear Richard,

    I agree with John about the breadth of your knowledge about Chinese History,
Literature and Culture [Zhongwen].
But on the list of The Five Greatest Assassins?
OK, Four Greatest Scholars; Four Greatest Artists; Four Greatest Calligraphers;
Four Greatest Poets; but Four Greatest Assassins ? Really?
Joey
« Last Edit: November 16, 2022, 07:01:26 am by Joey » Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #163 on: November 15, 2022, 12:03:04 pm »

Joey, I agree that the mark on post #159 is not "up to snuff " but could still be of the period.
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richy88
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« Reply #164 on: November 16, 2022, 12:29:51 am »

Hi Joey

Thanks for your feedback. Perhaps 'great' should be more appropriate than 'greatest'.

The Chinese tend to group people or objects of the same characteristics and talent together, like the four great beauties, the four classical novels, etc. They are usually formed of people or objects from the same (or about) the same period.

In this instance, the five great assassins (not four) were all from the early Chinese history of the Spring and Autumn period and the Warring States era.

They were recorded in one of the earliest historical records, Shiji (史记) written by a historian of the Han dynasty, Sima Qian (司马迁).

Of course, there were many other assassins in Chinese history after that but these five are the ones who were officially recognised as prominent representatives.

For your reference.

Regards.


Richard
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« Reply #165 on: November 16, 2022, 06:25:14 am »

Hi John

The last bottle appears to be Su Dongpo at the Red Cliff but I am not too sure about it.

The cause for this is that the boy attendant appears to be stepping on top of the waves but the figures with the monk seems to be the right scene.

For your reference.

Regards.


Richard
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« Reply #166 on: November 16, 2022, 07:09:03 am »

Dear Richard,

    I knew about the Chinese tradition to group things, and from similar periods.
But it seems odd to group Assassins...
Oh, and thank you, I've corrected my post to say 5...
Best,
Joey
 
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« Reply #167 on: November 16, 2022, 07:39:06 am »

Richard, thanks for the clarification on the 5 "great" assassins. I read the condensed version of the Red Cliff in the journal, but I do not remember 2 boats or the child coming from the waves.
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richy88
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« Reply #168 on: November 16, 2022, 10:59:59 pm »

Hi John

That's exactly where I have my doubt on the subject.

Would explore further and see whether I can find something more appropriate.

Regards.


Richard
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« Reply #169 on: November 18, 2022, 11:42:27 am »

Richard, if you can figure out the meaning of this bottle [78mm] you will be the G.O.A.T. [Greatest of all time].


* BOX B&W&R1 (2).JPG (100.6 KB, 263x700 - viewed 7 times.)

* BOX B&W&R2 (2).JPG (91.47 KB, 264x700 - viewed 6 times.)

* BOX B&W&R3 (2).JPG (88.92 KB, 258x700 - viewed 6 times.)

* BOX B&W&R4 (2).JPG (102.63 KB, 275x700 - viewed 6 times.)

* BOX B&W&R5 (2).JPG (118.51 KB, 554x500 - viewed 3 times.)
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« Reply #170 on: November 18, 2022, 08:02:48 pm »

Hi John

This is an unusual and interesting subject.

Let me do some research on it.

Regards.


Richard
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« Reply #171 on: November 19, 2022, 04:48:29 am »

Dear John,

    That does seem quite a mishmash of subjects.

Good luck, Richard.
But I've faith that if anyone can figure it out,
it will be you.
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #172 on: Today at 01:23:22 pm »

The next bottle I believe is an Immortal [67mm]. Maybe Richard can elaborate. From a small auction in 2013.


* BRU B&W&R1 (2).JPG (121.68 KB, 354x700 - viewed 2 times.)

* BRU B&W&R2 (2).JPG (93.54 KB, 352x700 - viewed 0 times.)

* BRU B&W&R3 (2).JPG (125.72 KB, 553x500 - viewed 0 times.)

* BRU B&W&R4 (2).JPG (111.9 KB, 591x500 - viewed 0 times.)
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John O'Hara

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