Blue & White Porcelain Bottles

[bambooforrest]

This next example [67mm] is from an internet auction in 2016. There is a nice depth to the painting for a smaller thin bottle. Unusual miniature landscape on the bottom.

[Joey]

Dear John,

  The thinner potting tends to be more typical of post 1865 Jingdezhen
wares.
But very nice painting.
I have B&W bottles from ca. 1890-1900 [by Suyundaoren
{Suyun Retired Follower of the Dao}],
as well or better painted as those from ca. 1770-1820.

I fly to Dubai tomorrow morning, so probably I'll not
be on the Forum till 26.December, after my return to Israel.
Happy Hanuka [Starts tomorrow evening],
and A Joyous Christmas to all who celebrate it,
And My Best to all,
Joey
Best,
Joey

[bambooforrest]

Joey, I agree that the bottle is post 1865. Good luck on your trip. You should be able to access the forum from your laptop. The next example [61mm] has nice painting on a more unusual shape. From an auction in 2007.

[bambooforrest]

The next example [71mm] has that "Golden Thread" type of glaze. I believe the figure is the general from the Peking Opera? Maybe Richard can confirm. From an internet auction in 2005.

[Joey]

Dear John,

   The porcelain looks to me like the regular crackling one sees on
Soft Paste porcelain. I don't see the yellow colour in the cracks.
And it does indeed look like the general from the Beijing Opera.
Best,
Joey

[richy88]

Hi John & Joey

Yes, this a typical Chinese opera costume for a general

Joey, there are many different types of Chinese operas and there are different depending on the region. Beijing opera is popular in the North and especially so after it became a favourite with Empress Dowager Cixi.

Regards.


Richard

[Joey]

Dear Richard,

   Thank you, but in October 1988, on my first visit to the PRC, we were taken to a
program of short sections from assorted Beijing Opera shows, put on by a travelling troupe
from Beijing. The short segments, together still too long at almost 2 hours, was presumably
for 'Foreign Friends'.
I told our National Guide, Yao Ti, that English-Speaking Westerners have
very short attention spans!
I pointed out that one French movie had a scene with a couple smoking and talking,
that went on for over 5 minutes [I timed it; it was like watching paint dry!
And not even nice coloured paint.
Like that nauseous green paint one finds in prisons such as HM Prison Belmarsh in London].

But the average length of a scene on an American TV program, is 27 - 37 seconds!

I further said that watching something in a foreign language is FASCINATING for the first 5-10
minutes. After that, it gets really old, really fast.
Best,
Joey

[bambooforrest]

Joey, there should be a way to differentiate between the soft paste of the last bottle and the more standard type [next post]. The next three bottles all show wrestlers. After Richard's post #221 on contemporary stone bottles showing the Emperor watching a wrestling match, I thought these bottles were more important. The center soft paste bottle [80mm] is very well done. From an internet auction in 2010.

[Joey]

Dear John,

    I'd never seen a bottle with wrestlers, and you've 3!
I've got one multiple, 8 compartment snuff bottle, #43 in "Dragon",
with 2 men fighting in a river. Robert Kleiner wrote "wrestling",
but they are fighting. One is half-naked.
Best,
Joey

[richy88]

Hi John

I agreed with Joey that this is an unusual subject.

Wrestling was not part of Chinese martial arts before the Qing dynasty. It was a fighting skill for the Mongolians and Manchurians. They held an annual competition to pick the best and the champion will earn the title of "Ba Tu Ru" which means the brave one or hero.

For your information.

Regards.


Richard

[bambooforrest]

Richard, thanks for the background on the Chinese wrestling. The remaining bottles I find very similar. The wrestlers look similar, as does the watcher. I do not know what is on his head and face or what he is holding. The figure on the bottom is a nice touch. From an internet auction in 2017.

[bambooforrest]

The last of the wrestler bottles [70mm]. I find this very similar to the previous one. The watcher's face has something on it and he is holding something in his hand. Even the bottom has a painted figure. Maybe George knows why the pictures are so far down.

[Joey]

Yes, that is odd.

Happy New Year 2023!
Joey

[bambooforrest]

The next bottle [76mm] has multiple dots but still is a fine soft paste example. Maybe Richard knows what is going on in this scene. The face of the large male figure is kind of scary. From a small auction in 2007.

[bambooforrest]

The next bottle [70mm] again has multiple dots on the neck. Good quality porcelain and nice painting. Maybe Richard can place the scene. From an internet auction in 2009.

[George]

I tried to fix the post with the big space John, but no luck.

I can't explain it.

[bambooforrest]

George, thanks for trying to fix that. A new find [81mm] and I do not know what is going on in the painting. Maybe Richard can figure it out from the calligraphy.

[Joey]

Dear John,

   I looked at the bottles in posts 393 and 396, and can't figure out either.
Hopefully Richard can. The bottle in 396 doesn't look to have a lot of age to it.
Best,
Joey

[richy88]

Hi John

The two characters on the bottle are from the classical novel, Water Margin aka All Men are Brothers.

They are two of the 108 heroes in the story, Qin Ming and Shi Yong respectively.

Joey, I think you meant posts 293 & 296.

Regards.


Richard

[rpfstoneman]

All,

I was just in the process of responding to John's bottle is a Hero's of the Water Margin theme, and Richard just beat me to it.  Attached is a similar bottle in soft paste with a concentric ring base.

Charll