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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
December 04, 2022, 03:42:57 pm
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Nine Fu dogs bottle

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Author Topic: Nine Fu dogs bottle  (Read 1175 times)
Joey
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« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2021, 04:11:06 am »

Dear Tom,

    And to that, I reply  ' γειά σου ' !
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

richy88
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« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2021, 04:38:08 am »

Hi Giovanni & all

The mark on the base reads "Jiu Shì Tóng Ju (九獅同居)", which literally means Nine Lions Living Together.

However, as the Chinese pronunciation for Lions (獅) is the same as Generations (世), it has the hidden meaning of "May you have nine generations together", a wish for longevity. Thus the hidden message is "九世同居".

For your reference.

Regards.


Richard
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Richard from sunny Singapore
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Joey
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« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2021, 04:52:18 am »

Dear Richard,

      I was wondering when you'd weigh in.
I'm chuffed that I got 3 of the four characters correctly. [Jiu, Tong & Ju].
I couldn't see the 2nd character [Shi] clearly enough to figure out the number of strokes.
And of course, I did not realise the Rebus meaning.
Thank you for your help to Giovanni, Richard, which has enriched the knowledge of all of us.
Best,
Happy Hanuka,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2021, 06:47:41 am »

Dear Richard,
because we are also talking about sayings here, we have a say that is much appropriate to you: “Vale tanto oro quanto pesa”, which means that Richard “is worth as much gold as he weighs”.
Really appropriate. Thank you!!
A friend gave me an exceptional software for cataloging my collection. It is a really time-consuming stuff but worth to do, and I have just started. Will then add this precious information in the description of the nine Fu dogs bottle.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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richy88
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« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2021, 08:04:51 am »

Hi Joey & Giovanni

Thanks for your kind words!

In this case, I better put on some more weight to be more 'worthy'! Grin Grin Grin

Regards.


Richard
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Richard from sunny Singapore
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Joey
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« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2021, 09:37:19 am »

Dear Richard,
because we are also talking about sayings here, we have a say that is much appropriate to you: “Vale tanto oro quanto pesa”, which means that Richard “is worth as much gold as he weighs”.
Really appropriate. Thank you!!
A friend gave me an exceptional software for cataloging my collection. It is a really time-consuming stuff but worth to do, and I have just started. Will then add this precious information in the description of the nine Fu dogs bottle.
Kind regards
Giovanni


In English, the saying is "Worth his weight in gold".
A pity you are not the Aga Khan, Richard.
Every new Aga Khan is weighed on his ascension to the title, and he literally receives his weight in gold! Roll Eyes Cheesy

Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2021, 10:25:48 am »

Dear Richard,
you really made my day. Frankly speaking, I was not so enthusiast about this bottle; In general, I consider this subject as relatively late, thus not so interesting, but I kept the bottle due to the quality of the painting, that is high.
Now, what I thought that was a standard auspicious mark did turn out to be related to the subject of the ware, which explain why I didn’t find it on Gerald Davison’s book. It is probably the only example that I have seen. 
Dear Joey, thank you. You know that I like sayings so much.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2021, 11:09:10 am »


     In Canada we used to say, "It's Greek to me".  Roll Eyes Grin


Dear Joey,

They say the same thing in the UK. My reply was always: "That's no problem at all!"
Or, to put it another way: Δεν είναι πρόβλημα !   Grin  Grin

Best,
Tom

And you are correct, Tom.
It is not a problem....
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

rpfstoneman
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« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2022, 09:41:33 pm »


All, just received this bottle today.  A recent acquisition from the Bonhams - The Joan and Ted Dorf Collection of Chinese Snuff Bottles and Archer’s Rings, New York.

Blue & White Porcelain Snuff Bottle:
Of cylindrical, slightly tapering, jarlet form with rounded shoulders and a flared raised neck, decorated in underglaze cobalt blue with a continuous scene of nine gamboling Buddhist/shi lions, three (3) with brocade balls in scrolling clouds.  Neck has a uniform a border of lingzhi heads.  Bottle rests on a raised unglazed foot rim with an apocryphal four-character Yongzheng nianzhi base mark in seal script.  Stopper is a dark blue lapis cabochon with black nylon collar and bamboo spoon.  Height is 5.7 cm (2¼ inches) without stopper.

Period: ca. 19th century, attributed to Jingdezhen
   
Condition: Near pristine with very minor surface abrasions. 

Provenance:   Bonhams, The Joan and Ted Dorf Collection of Chinese Snuff Bottles and Archers Rings, 19 Sept 2022, New York, Lot 41
                       Joan and Ted Dorf Collection, no. 310
                       Robert Kleiner, March 30, 2000

Follow-up Information:  Buddhist lions are a popular subject matter on snuff bottles.  When there are nine lions together, they represent the wish for peace and harmony through nine generations on one roof. 

Charll
 


* Dorf_2022b_1.jpg (110.66 KB, 657x900 - viewed 9 times.)

* Dorf_2022a_1.jpg (106.18 KB, 665x900 - viewed 7 times.)

* Dorf_100_3574.jpg (217.89 KB, 900x900 - viewed 7 times.)

* Dorf_100_3575.jpg (236.73 KB, 900x900 - viewed 11 times.)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2022, 09:44:48 pm by rpfstoneman » Report Spam   Logged

Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2022, 03:06:25 am »

Dear Charll,
Very nice bottle. Out of curiosity, I would say that the mark on your bottle is a good example for whom believe in the “hollow line” theory. We know that the theory is not accepted as a valid theory by scholars and experts, but in any case, if true, it would just confirm your dating.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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Joey
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« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2022, 03:50:19 am »

Dear Charll,
Very nice bottle. Out of curiosity, I would say that the mark on your bottle is a good example for whom believe in the “hollow line” theory. We know that the theory is not accepted as a valid theory by scholars and experts, but in any case, if true, it would just confirm your dating.
Kind regards
Giovanni



Dear Giovanni,
What is that theory?

Dear Charll,

  A really fine example. I was going to bid on it, but
decided to buy a stone snuff bottle instead. And didn’t
get any of the bottles I’d bid on. I did ‘Upset bids’ (low
bids -I win, great; I lose, OK).
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2022, 07:26:21 am »

Dear Joey,
If you look at the strokes of the mark, you will see that in some of the strokes the blue is not uniform. It tends to be darker on the two outer edges of the stroke. It seems that the cobalt is more concentrated on the edges of the line, which tends to be partially “hollow” inside.
The theory say that this is typical of late 19th century/Guangxu, and got a certain fortune/acceptance, but there are no doubts that not all the items of that period are exhibiting this feature, while the same can be observed, although less commonly, on items of any period including Kangxi.
Then it must not be taken as a sure tool of dating.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2022, 10:21:59 am »

Joey,

We've had a discussion of this theory here on the Forum in the past.  At present from everything I've read I'm not sure I put much stock in the idea as of yet.  Links are provided for those who wish to look into this further.

See link: https://gotheborg.com/glossary/hollowline.shtml

See link: https://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,1213.msg11542.html#msg11542

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

Joey
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« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2022, 03:56:19 pm »

Thank you, Charll and Giovanni.
I will look into it, when I have a moment.
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

joearp
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« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2022, 05:00:47 pm »

I am so happy you got this beautiful jarlet bottle from the Dorf Sale at Bonhams in September.  It is very special with the nine Fu Dogs on it!  It caught my eye, but I did not bid on it.  Glad I did not now that I know you were interested! I noticed that the Dorfs purchased it from Robert Kleiner in 2000.  The only jarlet bottle we have also came from Kleiner and I feel is similar in quality to yours. It was in the 50 for 50 Book, Number 7.  Again, great bottle!  Well done! 

 I was thrilled to get Lot 53 after the sale.  This is the agate with the silhouettes of birds on rockwork on the narrow sides of the bottle.  I will be so excited when it arrives!  What really makes it special to us is that it was in the Dorf's collection.  We had the privilege of visiting their home a few years ago and seeing their beautiful collection. Like you, they were very kind to us as new collectors about 12 years ago and that is much appreciated.

Again so happy for your new acquisition!
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« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2022, 07:24:21 pm »


Jo,

Happy to hear that you got a bottle you desired from the Dorf sale.  Will have to go back to the sale and review that agate bottle.  Also, thanks for the kind words.

Charll
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Joey
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« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2022, 02:51:13 am »

Dear Jo,

   Congratulations on your new treasure.
Did you contact the auction house and check
B-Is (bottles ‘bought in’{unsold})?
If so, were there many ‘B-Is’?
It’s raining here in Istanbul, but a friend from
Balikesir, near Bursa, just over 3 hours drive away,
has come over to join us for lunch.
Shabbat Shalom everyone,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2022, 12:04:36 pm »

Charll, congratulations on your purchase from the Dorf sale. I remember the bottle from my many visits to their home. The Dorf's were my first "mentors" in the snuff bottle world. I am showing my 9 Fu dogs bottle to match Giovanni's original post[73mm].


* BR 9 LIONS1 (2).JPG (108.54 KB, 263x700 - viewed 6 times.)

* BR 9 LIONS2 (2).JPG (90.43 KB, 264x700 - viewed 6 times.)

* BR 9 LIONS3 (2).JPG (90.98 KB, 264x700 - viewed 7 times.)

* BR 9 LIONS4 (2).JPG (117.23 KB, 603x500 - viewed 4 times.)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2022, 12:06:24 pm by bambooforrest » Report Spam   Logged

John O'Hara

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« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2022, 12:22:29 pm »

Dear John,
your one is a superb example of the best iron red enamel.
Giovanni
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Joey
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« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2022, 12:40:10 pm »

Dear John,

    I agree with Giovanni - a superb example of overglaze Iron red.
And the Fu dogs are so sweet.
Like Marshall and Richard’s Pekinese…
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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