Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇

Public Forum Categories and Boards => Glass Snuff Bottles => Topic started by: rpfstoneman on November 10, 2023, 12:12:42 am



Title: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: rpfstoneman on November 10, 2023, 12:12:42 am
All, this is a bottle I picked up at last year's ICSBS convention in San Francisco.  I tend to favor horse designs and this bottle always put a smile on my face when I look at the horses.   

Glass Cameo Snuff Bottle:
Blown glass of flatten oval form with an overlay of white on a ruby red glass with splashes of brown frit to produce dappling on the horses’ coat and on the trees to simulated branch stobs and knots.  Carved as a continuous scene of four horses (two on each side) in a rocky landscape under two overhang pines where the tree trucks emerge from the bottle sides.  Finely finished raised oval foot rim.  Bottle base finished to taper in line with the bottle form.

Stopper is a pinkish-red half glass bead simulating coral set in a filigreed brass collar with a short brass spoon.  Height is 5.7 cm without stopper by 4.7 cm in width by 2.5 cm in depth. 

Period: ca. 19th Century

Condition: Very fine with no chips, cracks, or repairs.

Provenance:  Powley Oriental Arts, who purchased the bottle from a local San Francisco antique dealer.

Charll


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on November 10, 2023, 07:06:50 am
Charll, I really like the bottle but I hope you are going to replace the top. I found Mark Powley to be a nice guy and easy to deal with.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on November 10, 2023, 08:14:40 am
Dear Charll,
   
    I'm not sure I met Mark Powley.
I was obviously not in a 'convention' frame of mind
after the Hamas Pogrom on 7.October.

   The bottle is very sweet, and the horses are appealing.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: rpfstoneman on November 10, 2023, 12:44:15 pm

John, yes I was eventually going to replace the stopper and provide a better spoon.  Still have to catch up on a number of bottles to catalog before I take the time to do stopper replacements. Likely during the mid winter rains when I stuck inside all day.

Charll


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: joearp on November 10, 2023, 02:36:18 pm
Lovely Bottle!  I really like the horses!


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on November 11, 2023, 07:11:21 am
Dear Charll, nice bottle indeed. I am impressed by the lot of carving that went there, due to the unusually high thickness of the white layer.
Kind regards

Giovanni



Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on November 11, 2023, 07:22:22 am
I have a lot of overlay glass and have posted a decent amount on the ICSBS forum. This example [65mm] has a very unusual color combination with the blue over a bubble pink glass body. The side decoration is also different, carved with a bat holding a Bi disc. The line carving of the ground extending to the other side of the bottle.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on November 16, 2023, 07:12:19 am
Another unusual bottle [76mm] from the same collection. I do not normally see bats and koi on the same bottle. Wear to the high points of the carving.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on November 17, 2023, 05:33:52 am
Dear John,

     Yes, a rare combination.
And a beautifully carved example.
But I believe that the fish is a Dragon Carp, and mythological,
rather than Koi, which is natural [and Japanese!].
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on November 17, 2023, 07:18:13 am
Another 3-color single overlay [63mm] from the same collection. Very fine detail to the carving. Interesting depiction of the bat, pomegranate and peach.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on November 17, 2023, 08:16:06 am
Dear John, nice bottle and very interesting. I have never seen them (bat, peach and pomegranate) joined together in a single assembly. Nice!
Giovanni



Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on November 20, 2023, 07:18:50 am
Giovanni, I agree it is an unusual way to carve that subject. I like the color combination on this bottle [70mm].


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on November 20, 2023, 09:53:00 am
John,

  Is it cinnabar red on opaque turquoise blue?
Or burgundy red?
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on November 20, 2023, 10:45:32 am
Joey, I would say it is closer to cinnabar red.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on November 20, 2023, 01:13:23 pm
OK, Thanks.
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on November 21, 2023, 07:34:28 am
The next bottle [72mm] has an interesting depiction of a coiled kui dragon in red overlay surrounding a pearl. The circular carving surrounding the dragon is very well carved and rounded.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on November 21, 2023, 08:37:56 pm
John,

    Ruby red on snowflake is of course very common.
But I don't believe I've ever seen the dragon & pearl design
done this way.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on November 22, 2023, 11:39:52 am
Joey, it is an unusual carving. This jarlet [60mm] is also unusual featuring 2 chi dragons. It has a nice rich sapphire blue color. From an auction in 2017.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on November 28, 2023, 12:21:13 pm
This next bottle [55mm] is from the collection of my good friend Charles "Bud" Swain. The top I believe is original to the bottle.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on November 28, 2023, 02:56:59 pm
John,

    Both the Blue and the Green overlay examples are beauties,
though I prefer the Green one.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on November 29, 2023, 07:06:00 am
One of my favorite examples [66mm] on a clear glass body. So many things going on.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: joearp on November 29, 2023, 08:44:56 am
Like all three you recently posted John.  I think the Green is also my favorite!


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: George on November 29, 2023, 09:29:57 am
One of my favorite examples

I especially like this one as well John. Having a hard time making out exactly what is going on, but love the bottle!


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on November 29, 2023, 06:48:44 pm
Dear John,
 
    This is a bottle I'd need to hold in my hand,
to decide whether I like it or if it is too busy for me.
I find the carving 'claustrophobic'.
   But it seems well made.
And I think it is later [19th C., not 18th C.], but that is
because it is so busy, not due to any other factors.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 01, 2023, 12:36:08 pm
Joey, it has all the attributes of 18th century carving. The koi on its back is issuing a triple plume, the center with a pavilion, a crane to the right. The reverse shows a bat above the plume over the rising sun. This next bottle [76mm] is one of my favorites from the fine collection I found in Belfast N. Ireland.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 01, 2023, 02:17:12 pm
Dear John,

   I LOVE the Praying Mantis on the front, but the reverse has me confused.
I see grapes but also what looks like a lizard, not a squirrel/bushy-tailed tree rat...
Am I mistaken?
But I can't see the 'busy' one well enough to make out carving details from the
18th C. or the 19th C.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 02, 2023, 07:25:19 am
Joey, definitely the squirrel and grapes motif. The squirrels have bushy tails. From the same collection this bottle [57mm] has excellent carving of a monkey and a peach.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 02, 2023, 10:09:35 am
This second red overlay is wonderful!
Is that a scholar holding a wine cup in the other side?
Thank you.
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on December 02, 2023, 02:38:51 pm
Dera John,
all beautiful bottles, but this last one is my preferred. Very nice, either for the quality of the carving and the composition of the scenes.
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 02, 2023, 03:33:28 pm
Dera John,
all beautiful bottles, but this last one is my preferred. Very nice, EITHER for the quality of the carving and the composition of the scenes.
Giovanni

Dear Giovanni,
    If you just exchange 'both' for 'EITHER', you will be grammatically correct.
With 'either', you are saying that EITHER the quality of the carving OR the composition
of the scenes is why you prefer it, but not both.
Best,
Joey
[who taught English to Israeli officers for 2 1/2 years, after wrecking a Centurion tank
due to NOT understanding the Hebrew 'command' tense during tank driving training.]
 ::) :o :D


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on December 02, 2023, 04:52:36 pm
Dear Joey, you well know, the correction is much appreciated. Thank you!
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 02, 2023, 05:38:39 pm
Wonderful, Dear Giovanni.
When may we see it corrected? ::) ;)
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 03, 2023, 07:32:31 am
Joey, there is a scholar holding a wine cup, a large censer at his feet. Another from the same collection [63mm].


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 03, 2023, 02:03:06 pm
Dear John,

   Is that blue overlaid on pale lime green bubble glass?
Stunning bottle.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 04, 2023, 08:01:11 am
Joey, the lighting gives it a slight green tinge but it is white. The next bottle [59mm] from the same collection has an unusual gold overlay of chi dragons surrounding a pearl.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 04, 2023, 11:53:29 am
OK, John. Thank you for letting me know.
This gold on milk glass overlay is stunning!
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: rpfstoneman on December 04, 2023, 01:19:53 pm

John,

I love a good traditional dragon motif, then second is chi long designs.  I can appreciate this bottle for a couple of reason besides the motif.  First each face is nicely carved with a well balanced design that can be easily seen from close up as well from some distance.  The golden color class is well matched on the white background with plenty of open space that accentuates the chi longs.  Second, it does not have the same design (not matched) on each side.   Again, the more traditional carver would have had a matched, or mirrored, design on each face.   Nice find!

Charll     


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 04, 2023, 02:46:53 pm
Dear Charll,

    I didn't compare the two sides before. Well spotted.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 05, 2023, 07:55:07 am
Charll, I see you have an eye for fine quality. Everything from this collection is top notch including this bottle [61mm] with plum.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 05, 2023, 04:12:15 pm
John,

   The Red Overlay 'Plum' bottle is indeed top quality.
I'd date it ca. 1780 - 1840.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 06, 2023, 08:10:34 am
Joey, I would agree with that dating. The collection contained 2 koi bottles. This one [75mm].


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 06, 2023, 06:30:03 pm
Dear John,

     This is a very pleasing bottle.
I'd date it to ca. 1800 - 1860.
Possibly a bit earlier.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 07, 2023, 08:43:10 am
Joey, I would also say possibly a little earlier. This next koi [69mm] is on clear bubble glass, probably the same dating.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 07, 2023, 08:47:39 am
Yes, John, both could be ca. 1780 - 1850.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 08, 2023, 07:32:11 am
From the Mitchell Bistany Collection comes this Yangzhou school bottle [74mm]. Richard's translation is "writing a poem on a rock and clearing it of it's moss". It is a phrase taken from a Tang Dynasty poem by Bai Juyi about meeting a friend and sending him off.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: joearp on December 08, 2023, 10:59:56 am
Another lovely bottle John.  All these are quite nice!


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 09, 2023, 02:14:27 am
Dear John,

    I agree with Jo!
This is a classic Yangzhou Seal School bottle, ca. 1820-1880.
Very fine example.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 09, 2023, 08:05:02 am
Jo and Joey, thanks for the comments. This next bottle [54mm] is hard to see without holding it. It is a rather compressed form of the squirrel and grapes motif [squirrel lower right]. From an auction in 2013.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 09, 2023, 09:07:11 am
Dear John,

    Once I saw the bushy tail, I could figure out
the design. Very interesting. I'd give a 19th C. dating.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 11, 2023, 07:56:29 am
Joey, I would agree with that dating. This next bottle [68mm] is on a more unusual yellow tinted bubble glass ground.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on December 11, 2023, 12:14:34 pm
Dear John, highly unusual! I believe that it is the first time that I see such colors combination.
Nice bottle.
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 11, 2023, 08:19:27 pm
Dear John and Giovanni,

   I used to have a bottle with that colour combination
and that Qilong subject, which I bought from Pam Friedman
[Pamela Lessing Friedman collection],
when she was still married to her husband Neil.
Before she married her wife. Complicated.... ::) :o ;D
But she's been a much nicer person since she divorced Neil
and hooked up with Dr. Judith, a Jewish lady MD from South Africa
who was in charge of the UN task force trying to deal with AIDS
in the early 1980s.
Very nice example and I'd date it ca. 1800-1850.
Happy Hanuka, A Joyous Advent Season, and Merry Christmas.
Best,
Joey




Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 12, 2023, 07:16:11 am
Giovanni and Joey, thanks for the comments. I also want to wish everyone a Happy Hanuka and a Merry Christmas. This next bottle [67mm] is an unusual double overlay on a ruby red ground. From a group of 6 bottles from a local auction in 2002.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 12, 2023, 03:59:09 pm
Wonderful Double Overlay, John!
Stunning.
Thank you for posting it.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: rpfstoneman on December 13, 2023, 12:27:46 am

John, thanks for sharing all these bottles.  This last bottle is particularly to my taste.  Charll


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 13, 2023, 11:36:13 am
Joey and Charll, thanks for the comments. This next example [69mm] has a nice shape and a wide splayed footrim. From an internet auction in 2015.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 13, 2023, 02:04:02 pm
Beautiful bottle, John.
I love ruby red on milk glass.
And even the Swastikas are OK.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 14, 2023, 11:18:54 am
This 4-color single overlay [70mm] is well carved with fish. From an auction in 2014.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 14, 2023, 03:46:11 pm
Dear John,

    A beautiful four colour single overlay.
Wonderful example of fish swimming among water weeds.
I could easily see this dated ca. 1770 - 1830.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 15, 2023, 12:29:57 pm
The next double overlay [55mm] has unusual colors and motif. The handles remind me of Guangxu style. From an auction in 2009.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 15, 2023, 04:01:46 pm
Dear John,

     I'd not have caught the Guangxu-style taotie.
Well spotted.
But still an impressive bottle by anyone's standard.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 16, 2023, 07:24:55 am
My earliest 3-color single overlay [58mm] from an internet auction in 1998.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 16, 2023, 05:26:22 pm
Dear John,

   The Rebus of Swastika and Bat [Wan Fu in Chinese]
translates to 10,000 Blessings.
I will have to look up the Rebus of Stone {Jade} Chime and Bat.
I did. 'Chime' is Qing in Chinese and 'to Celebrate' is also Qing.
And the Bat is Fu and 'A Blessing' is also Fu.
So 'Qing Fu' is a Rebus for 'Celebrate {your} Blessing.'
Beautiful 3 colour single overlay.
I'd date this bottle ca.1760-1820.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 17, 2023, 08:01:27 am
Joey, I agree with that dating. The next example is an unusual peach shaped bottle [51mm] with a 2-color overlay. The leaves are in think green glass and a splash of red on the tip of the peach. From the Collection of Virginia Rice.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 17, 2023, 04:10:22 pm
Dear John,

   The late Virginia Rice of Metairie LA, near New Orleans,
was a dear friend, along with the late Rick Rhodes and his
life-partner of over 50 years, Jerry Kahn, who lived in
New Orleans [Jerry's still there, but in Sheltered Housing.].
Every year, I'd visit them at least twice, and as well, meet
Virginia and Rick at conventions.

The bottle is very interesting, and at first I thought it was
white Nephrite jade with a green Jade leaf appliquéd on.
Beautiful example. Would you date it ca. 1750 - 1820 or
ca. 1800 - 1850?
I bet Vince Fausone would like to see it as an example of Glass
imitating Jade.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 18, 2023, 08:08:58 am
Joey, I would date the bottle 1780 to 1850. The next bottle [62mm] has 2 chi dragons, one with pointy ears the other with rounded ones. From an auction in 2019.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: rpfstoneman on December 18, 2023, 10:27:55 am

John,

I've read in the past that this ear type is the ying and yang of the chi long motif.  If I correctly recall the pointed ear chi long is 'male' and the round ear is the 'female'.  I'm always on the lookout for this motif with both ear types and have yet to acquire a good example.  Yours is that good example!

Charll


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 18, 2023, 03:48:54 pm
It is a superb 18th C. Ruby red overlay bottle, John!
I didn't know that, Charll. Interesting.
I need to get out my overlays and check the ears on the
Qilongs!
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 19, 2023, 07:18:22 am
Charll, I always thought that one would be male, the other female. My other example [61mm] possibly by the same hand. From an auction in 2019.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 19, 2023, 04:07:00 pm
John,

   Another beauty! Wonderful.
And definitely 18th C., like the previous one.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 20, 2023, 10:53:36 am
This next bottle [70mm] has unusual thin chi dragons. From an auction in 2015.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: George on December 20, 2023, 11:09:47 am
Good gracious John, you sure have some beautiful bottles!


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 20, 2023, 03:43:03 pm
Good gracious John, you sure have some beautiful bottles!

John, I agree with George.
But please post a view of the bottles' mouths.
It helps when trying to judge / date them.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 21, 2023, 07:47:14 am
George and Joey, thanks for the comments. A picture of the last bottles mouth opening and this next bottle [69mm] with a sapphire blue glass carving on a clear glass body from the same auction.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 21, 2023, 01:58:39 pm
Dear John,

    Thank you for posting the previous bottle's mouth and this one's
as well.
    Both are beautiful bottles.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 22, 2023, 08:04:58 am
The next bottle [46mm] is small and features a katidid. From an auction in 2004.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 22, 2023, 05:17:03 pm
Dear John,

    Dark green overlay on caramel glass is one of my favourite
colour combinations in Overlay glass.
I had to look up Katydid.
I found out that it is also called a horned grasshopper.
Beautiful bottle, though a bit cramped. But I guess to be expected
on such a small bottle [46mm].
Best,
joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 23, 2023, 07:03:14 am
Joey, I agree it is a little cramped for a small bottle. Another with the same color combination [62mm] very finely carved. From the Tushingham Hall Collection, Cheshire U.K.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 23, 2023, 07:17:24 pm
Dear John,

 That is stunning!
But it looks more like dark green on opaque Imperial Yellow.
Is the colour off in the photos,
or is it indeed dark green on yellow?
Best,
Merry Christmas,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 24, 2023, 12:01:41 pm
Joey, the editing makes it look more yellow. It is actually a light brown. Another of my 3-color overlays [60mm] from an auction in 2010.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 24, 2023, 03:17:27 pm
Dear John,

    I still prefer the deeper caramel colour of the previous one.
This 3 colour single overlay is wonderful! The carving is great,
the colours are vibrant, and I especially love the deep oval indented
foot. I'd definitely say it is ca. 1750 - 1800.
Best,
And Merry Christmas,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 25, 2023, 07:11:17 am
Christmas bottle! This one [73mm] displayed at the Walters Museum of Art for the 2018 convention. Clare Chu dates the bottle 1750 to 1820. From an auction in 2012.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 25, 2023, 11:22:34 am
Dear John,

   A superb example!
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: joearp on December 25, 2023, 11:29:21 am
Another beautiful bottle John and in Christmas Green!  So appropriate a share for today!


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 26, 2023, 08:10:47 am
Joey and Jo, thanks for the comments. This next example [62mm] is an unusual low relief pink glass overlay on a clear glass body. From the Collection of Dr. Weaver from Ma.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: joearp on December 26, 2023, 08:39:20 am
Another beautiful Bottle John.  Love the pink overlay.  What the age range on this one in your opinion?


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: George on December 26, 2023, 11:51:22 am
This next example [62mm] is an unusual low relief pink glass overlay on a clear glass body. From the Collection of Dr. Weaver from Ma.

Beautiful !


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 27, 2023, 07:13:57 am
Jo and George, thanks for the comments. I would date the bottle 1850 to 1900. This next bottle is earlier with a sapphire blue overlay. From a Canadian auction in 2012.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: joearp on December 27, 2023, 10:29:00 am
Lovely John!  I love the base of the bottle.  Nice find. 


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 27, 2023, 07:20:58 pm
Dear John,

    Beautiful!
Thank you for posting.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 28, 2023, 07:25:25 am
Jo and Joey, thanks for the comments. This next smaller example [59mm] is on a clear glass body. From an auction in 2012.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 28, 2023, 08:19:11 am
Dear John,

    Does this second, smaller example have very fine crizzling
on the interior surface of the clear glass?
I'm not sure from the photos.
If so, it is early Chinese glass from the Kangxi Emperor-founded
Imperial Palace glass workshop in Beijing, and from ca. 1690 - 1730.
In any event, it looks as good, or even better, than the previous one.
Best for 2024,
Joey



Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 29, 2023, 07:14:58 am
Joey, the body is slightly opalescent and has a lot of bubbles but no crizzling. This next example [65mm] shows the male and female chi dragons in sapphire blue. From an auction in 2010.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 29, 2023, 07:40:54 am
Dear John,

    Without crizzling, I'd date that bottle to ca. 1750 -1800.
It's a beauty.
The latest blue overlay, with the Qilong with 2 different styles of ears,
I'd date to ca. 1880 - 1920. To me, it looks late.
Mainly because of the taotie and the way the base made from the
tail of one of the Qilong is so badly executed.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 30, 2023, 07:30:05 am
Joey, I agree that the base and handles are not well done. This next bottle [61mm] I also think is late. The foot is a bit sloppy and the chi dragons are starting to look like dogs.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 30, 2023, 07:14:55 pm
John,

   I agree about the qilong looking a bit like dogs, and agree
as to your dating.
But I find this bottle really charming!
Best to all for 2024.
May it be much better than 2023,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on December 31, 2023, 07:56:17 am
Joey, 2024 has to be an improvement on 2023. This next 5-color overlay bottle [65mm] from my local auction is well carved and conceived.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on December 31, 2023, 03:58:16 pm
Dear John,

    That IS a beautifully conceived and executed 5 colour single overlay
glass snuff bottle.
Best for 2024,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 01, 2024, 07:24:11 am
The next example [69mm] is a lot more subtle with the overlay just forming the footrim. From an auction in 2009.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 01, 2024, 11:07:10 am
Dear John,

    That bottle is STUNNING in its simple elegant beauty.
Wow!
Thank you for posting it.
Best to all for 2024.
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on January 01, 2024, 11:45:19 am
I agree, very nice!
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 02, 2024, 08:07:20 am
Joey and Giovanni, thanks for the comments. This next similar bottle [72mm] has a different shape and an even smaller red footrim. From my local auction in 2015.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 02, 2024, 05:45:03 pm
Dear John,

    This example doesn't hit me like the previous example.
I don't know why. But it still is a very nice example.
It is elegant, but somehow the rectangular flattened flask
pleases me more.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 03, 2024, 08:02:21 am
Joey, I personally thought this one had a more elegant shape. Robert Kleiner told me that bronze bells are very rare in overlay glass as on this example [55mm]. From an internet auction in 2001.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 03, 2024, 09:40:46 am
Dear John,

    The subject is very rare,
but also the quality of the Ruby red overlay,
the quality of the carving,
indeed every facet of this bottle is first rate.
I'd date this ca. 1740 - 1800, and possibly Imperial.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 04, 2024, 12:06:16 pm
Joey, I agree with the dating and I believe it is Imperial. The next bottle [66mm] shows some real 3-D carving of the 8 Horses of King Mu. From an auction in 2000.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 04, 2024, 04:44:22 pm
Dear John,

    The subject is very rare,
but also the quality of the Ruby red overlay,
the quality of the carving,
indeed every facet of this bottle is first rate.
I'd date this ca. 1750 - 1800, and possibly Imperial.
Another wonderful Ruby Red overlay.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 05, 2024, 08:08:37 am
Joey, I agree with your dating and possible Imperial attribution.. This next unusual bottle [50mm] is on an opalescent ground. Richard says it was taken from a Han Dynasty tile and reads "Yi shou yan nian" a wish for ones longevity. The reverse reads "Feng hu" protect.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 05, 2024, 07:59:49 pm
Dear John,

 This is yet another bottle I'd attribute to the Palace Glass Workshops,
and would date it to ca. 1760 - 1800.
Wonderful example.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 06, 2024, 07:13:53 am
Joey, I agree. Clare picked this bottle for display in Philadelphia. The next small bottle [49mm] has an unusual swirl glass ground and good carving. From an auction in 2019.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on January 06, 2024, 01:49:08 pm
Dear John,
starting from the bottle with the bronze bells and including all the following ones, I would be in serial difficult if I had to pick up only one of them.
Superb bottles, thank you very much for showing them.
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 06, 2024, 02:43:26 pm
Dear Giovanni,

    I'd have the same problem! All the ruby red overlays in the last few posts
are superb in my opinion.
But I don't like the green on swirly green one.
I find it hard to appreciate over the screen.
Possibly it would appeal to me in hand...
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on January 07, 2024, 04:04:21 am
Dear Joey, when I said “all the following ones”, I had in mind to add “with less appeal for the last green one”, but at the end I didn’t say it, because it is anyway a highly unusual combination of colors.
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 07, 2024, 04:27:42 am
Dear Giovanni,

    My problem with the 'translucent green' on 'swirly green' bottle
is that I don't EVER remember seeing that type of green glass
in a snuff bottle. I'm not familiar with Chinese glass outside of snuff bottles.
 
   John, do you have another bottle with that exact type of translucent
green glass? Or can you find anything on the Internet?
I've a catalogue of Chinese Glass, from an exhibition by the late Emma Dagan z"l
and others, in LACMA [LA County Museum of Art], but saw no glass even similar.
That was my main caveat.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 08, 2024, 08:07:08 am
Joey and Giovanni, I sent pictures of the bottle to Clare Chu and she said she has seen that combination before. She also said it very rare and dated it to the early 19th century. Enclosed is a similar overlay on a yellow glass body that has an internal crack around the bottle, probably caused during manufacturing.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: rpfstoneman on January 08, 2024, 02:07:25 pm

All,

Let me take you back to John’s post #107, the opalescent bottle with the red medallions of script.  I do like this bottle very much, but to me it has a flaw to be attributed “Imperial”.  It well maybe that it was manufactured in the Imperial Workshops, if so, I would consider it a “second” due to the number of black spots in the white glass.  This condition to me indicates that the bottle was created in a “dirty” environment where there was ash and other impurities floating around the kiln and/or work platform.  In observing more pure and uncontaminated works, I would have found this bottle unacceptable to the court if I were to be making the assessment.
 
These are just my initial thoughts, and of course I was not there to know for sure.

Charll   


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 08, 2024, 05:18:47 pm
Dear Charll,

    I see your point, but the inclusions would not bother me.
I honestly don't know whether they would have bothered whatever
'quality control' there might have been.
But certainly a point to ponder...
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 09, 2024, 07:31:21 am
Charll and Joey, I always thought that with a wood burning fire there was a high chance of impurities. Another transparent green bubble glass bottle [60mm] of similar color to my other example. This one made from a solid block.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 09, 2024, 02:08:58 pm
Charll and Joey, I always thought that with a wood burning fire there was a high chance of impurities. Another transparent green bubble glass bottle [60mm] of similar color to my other example. This one made from a solid block.

John, I agree re.wood fires.
But you need to be more specific, when writing "...of similar color to my other example."
Which one?
Till Friday, I'll not be available...
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 12, 2024, 07:33:09 am
Joey, I hope you are back safely. This next bottle [66mm] has an unusual pebble shape with a snow flake body. From a dealer in 1999.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 12, 2024, 01:26:19 pm
Dear John,

    Thank you, yes.
I had a horrible flight on ELAL from Tel Aviv to Lisbon.
The food was dreadful and the business is very cramped,
and while the staff were great, I could not face the return flight.
So at 06:00am Thursday morning, I booked myself onto the
Emirates flight that night at 8:45pm, arriving 08:15am, Lisbon - Dubai, then 90 minutes later,
Dubai - Tel Aviv on FlyDubai, which is the 'cheaper' version of Emirates,
but much better than ELAL comparing their Business class.
All my treasures are now safely returned to their places.

Susan Page brought a bottle for my consideration, a  Macaroni Agate.
It turned out that Clare had sold it on my behalf in 1991 , and I bought it back.


Your overlay bottle has a number of features that point to mid-later 19th C. dating.
A very nice example


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 13, 2024, 07:26:38 am
Joey, glad to hear that you are back with your treasures. I agree with the mid 19th century dating. This next 6 color overlay [70mm] is harder to date. It has the wide mouth opening of an earlier bottle. From an internet auction in 2002.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on January 13, 2024, 04:57:54 pm
Dear John, nice bottle. I would make a comment about the last two pictures. It is not a criticism, just a note for those who are not aware of optical distortion due to perspective. The mouth is, as you correctly said, wider than the normal, but not so wide as it appears in the picture. The camera was very close to the bottle and because of that, both the mouth and the base are looking bigger than in real.
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 14, 2024, 07:37:23 am
Joey, I can not control the auto-focus on my camera. When a bottle lays flat sometimes it focuses on the mouth opening and sometimes the body. I crop the last 2 photos to make them larger for viewing. Maybe Richard can figure out the meaning of the 'V' shaped object on this blue overlay [61mm].


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on January 14, 2024, 12:07:30 pm
Dear John,
I think that you were addressing to myself and not to Joey.
I have not been clear. I was not talking about focus. What I meant is that the camera was too much close to the bottle. For that reason, the distance between the waist of the bottle and the lens of the camera is about twice the distance between the mouth of the bottle and the lens. Because of that, the mouth looks much bigger than in real.
I am adding a comparison between the side view and the flat view, where by red lines I am highlighting the width of the mouth and the width of the bottle. While in the side view we can see that the mouth is, correctly, about one third of the width of the body, in the flat view the width of the mouth appears to be about half of the width of the bottle, which is not real. 
For example, we see in the side views that there is a blue area around the foot, larger than the foot itself. In the picture of the base, this area disappears completely, just because of what said above, the camera is too much close.
To avoid this, you should move the camera far from the bottle and then crop the image.
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 14, 2024, 06:59:50 pm
Dear John,

    Giovanni suggested moving the camera farther away.
I would not have the knowledge to suggest that... ::) :o ;D
I must confess I don't know what the 'V' shape is, either.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 15, 2024, 11:17:14 am
Giovanni, sorry for the confusion. I see what you mean. The next group I take I will follow your advice. This next bottle [58mm] has 2 confronting chi dragons. From an auction in 2014.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 15, 2024, 06:55:47 pm
Giovanni, sorry for the confusion. I see what you mean. The next group I take I will follow your advice. This next bottle [58mm] has 2 confronting chi dragons. From an auction in 2014.


"This next bottle [58mm] has 2 confronting chi dragons."
Should have added to this partially correct description, "front and reverse",
since there are pairs of confronting dragons on each broad side.
Beautiful bottle by the way.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 16, 2024, 08:15:11 am
Joey, you are of course correct. This next bottle [67mm] has a chi dragon carved on both sides on a clear ground. From an internet auction in 2000.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 16, 2024, 06:34:45 pm
WOW, John!
Magnificent.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 17, 2024, 07:38:41 am
This next Yangzhou School bottle [49mm] features the 8 Horses of King Mu. Perhaps Richard can help with the calligraphy. From an auction in 2010.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 17, 2024, 01:14:18 pm
Really fine quality Yangzhou Seal School type.
Ca. 1820 -1880.
Best
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: George on January 17, 2024, 04:29:02 pm
This next bottle [67mm] has a chi dragon carved on both sides on a clear ground. From an internet auction in 2000.

Beautiful!


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 18, 2024, 12:29:41 pm
Joey and George, thanks for the comments. This next bottle [70mm] has a transparent green overlay on a brown body. Nice carving of the male and female chi dragons. From an auction in 2014.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: rpfstoneman on January 18, 2024, 12:39:20 pm

Beautiful bottle John and one of my favorite motifs.  Charll


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 18, 2024, 12:53:59 pm
John, I would call this translucent dark green glass
overlay on Caramel.  One of my favourite colour combinations.

And I agree with Charll - a beautiful bottle and as you
know, dragons are among my favourite subjects too.

Although I'm torn between this type with the fluidly carved 'organic'
style qilong dragons [qi dragons?] and the ones with pairs
of confronting stylised archaistic dragons with or without a
'Long Life' or a 'Double Happiness' character in the middle.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 19, 2024, 08:47:12 am
Charll and Joey, thanks for the comments. This next bottle [52mm] is a miniature Yangzhou School example. From an internet auction in 2005.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 19, 2024, 10:13:51 am
Dear John,

    The side with the pair of birds perched and the taotie are wonderful.
The side with the squirrels and grape vines, less so.
But still quite a beauty considering the small size and rare shape.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: richy88 on January 19, 2024, 09:55:22 pm
Hi John

The title for the bottle in post #130 is The Eight Horses.

For your information.

Regards.


Richard


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on January 20, 2024, 03:18:19 am
Dear John and all,
The color of the overlay of the very nice caramel bottle with the qilongs is actually light blue, as we can see on the parts where the caramel color is not behind them. The green results from the combination of the blue and the brown.
Here is my bottle where we can see the same effect:
https://www.xipangu.co.uk/mangialupo/?product=g17-a-carved-blue-overlay-on-caramel-brown-crab-and-fish-snuff-bottle
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 20, 2024, 07:16:18 am
Richard, thanks for the translation. Giovanni, I really think that the overlay color is green as on this next example [60mm]. Even though the overlay is thicker, the light is coming through on the 2nd photo.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on January 20, 2024, 02:36:08 pm
Dear John, I don't know about the last bottle, but for the qilins one I am sure. In the picture below is the evidence. You will surely note that by looking at the bottle from different sides, as I see on my bottle.
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 20, 2024, 03:09:24 pm
Dear Giovanni,

    You are correct, as usual....  ::) :o ;)
It looks to be a 'teal blue', where not on the Caramel glass.
Still beautiful.
Best,
joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 21, 2024, 08:06:05 am
Giovanni, you have convinced me! Thanks! The next bottle [55mm] has very fine carving. I was told by the owner that his father purchased it at Sotheby's London in the 1980's.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: joearp on January 21, 2024, 01:58:39 pm
Lovely John!  The birds have a bit of personality! ::)


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: richy88 on January 22, 2024, 02:27:48 am
Hi John

Nice colour and motif on the last bottle.

The subject depicted is the phoenix with the peony flower. It is a popular subject in Chinese paintings and arts as both of them symbolize wealth.

As for the design in post#140 is known as the Mao Die Tu (耄耋图) in Chinese.

The subject is always a cat with a butterfly which symbolizes a long life in the Chinese culture.

Regards.


Richard


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 22, 2024, 07:59:34 am
Richard, thanks for the information. I will update the info on my collection. This next bottle I think you were unable to figure out. These symbols are quite unusual [69mm].


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on January 22, 2024, 02:14:46 pm
¬¬Dear John,
the characters may be unknown, but the working of this bottle is really superb, perfectly smoothed everywhere. Great bottle.
Dear Richard, good eyes! I have not noted the butterfly before your comment.
I have this motif on two bottles.
Here:
https://www.xipangu.co.uk/mangialupo/?product=s41-a-smoky-quartz-may-you-live-into-your-seventies-and-eighties-snuff-bottle
and here:
https://www.xipangu.co.uk/mangialupo/?product=ip12-a-pair-of-inside-painted-glass-snuff-bottles-bapo-style-yan-yutian
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 22, 2024, 04:20:07 pm
Richard,
I understood that the cat [mao] and butterfly [hudie] motif is a Rebus:
Maodie = May you live into your seventies and eighties.
Maodie Tu = Picture of Cat and Butterfly.
I quote Hidden Meanings in Chinese Art, 7.6.1 & 7.8.1
Best,
Joey

Hi John

Nice colour and motif on the last bottle.

The subject depicted is the phoenix with the peony flower. It is a popular subject in Chinese paintings and arts as both of them symbolize wealth.

As for the design in post#140 is known as the Mao Die Tu (耄耋图) in Chinese.

The subject is always a cat with a butterfly which symbolizes a long life in the Chinese culture.

Regards.


Richard


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: richy88 on January 22, 2024, 08:21:17 pm
Hi John & all

Yes, unfortunately, I am unable to read the text on the last bottle.

This is because the text is not Chinese, it is written in Manchurian.

I have tried searching online but there are very few resources on the Manchu language.

There are a few schools in northeastern China such as Liaoning and Heilongjiang Province that offer to teach it to rescue the language.

Northeastern China is the origin of the Manchu tribe.

For your information.

Regards.


Richard


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: richy88 on January 22, 2024, 08:37:04 pm
Hi Joey & all

Yes, the phrase Mao Die is a rebus.

Mao (耄) refers to people who are aged eighty to ninety. The word Mao sounds the same as cat (猫) in Chinese.

Likewise, the word Die (耋) sounds like a butterfly (蝶) and is for people aged seventy to eighty.

The phrase Mao Die (耄耋) originated from a poem by the famous warlord, Cao Cao of the Three Kingdoms era.

For your reference.

Regards.


Richard


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on January 23, 2024, 06:51:57 am
Wow, dear John, I envy you for that bottle, whatever is the reason for having the Manchu characters on it.
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 23, 2024, 07:18:00 am
Everyone, thanks for your comments. This might be my first red overlay [71mm] from 1997. The kui dragons are very worn.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 23, 2024, 02:45:02 pm
Richard, thanks for the information. I will update the info on my collection. This next bottle I think you were unable to figure out. These symbols are quite unusual [69mm].


This is very rare - Manchu calligraphy.
Wonderful!
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 24, 2024, 08:15:34 am
An unusual shape for a 4-color overlay on opalescent glass body [61mm]. The carving very thin and delicate. From an auction in 2012.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 24, 2024, 05:30:36 pm
Dear John,

    What shape is it, exactly ?
It looks odd. Is the bottle squat like it sank in?
Beautiful delicate overly and well carved,
but I'm having a problem getting my head around the shape.
Best,
joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: rpfstoneman on January 24, 2024, 07:46:08 pm
Quote
What shape is it, exactly?

Joey, it looks to be a 'squat pear' shaped bottle to me.  Charll


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 25, 2024, 04:02:12 am
Thank you, Charll.
Best,
joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 25, 2024, 12:18:37 pm
Joey, I think Charll is correct. The next bottle [60mm] is an unusual 3-color double overlay on milk glass. From the Richard Pierce Collection.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 25, 2024, 02:15:12 pm
Wonderful bottle, John.
Who was Richard Pierce, the previous collector?
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 26, 2024, 08:05:11 am
Joey, Richard Pearce was a collector from Toronto and purchased the bottles from George Crofts & Co. in 1923. This next bottle [71mm] is one of my favorites. A matching bottle was in the Bloch Collection.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: joearp on January 26, 2024, 03:55:40 pm
simply elegant!


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: George on January 26, 2024, 05:50:30 pm
Love it !


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 26, 2024, 06:30:47 pm
Dear John,

    I feel shame! Shame!  ::) :o ;D
I'm from Toronto and had never heard of Richard Pearce.
Oh well...
And now I've also learned about George Crofts, the British fur dealer who
shipped hundreds of large crates of Chinese art treasures to the ROM
between 1918 and his death in 1925.
Previously, I'd thought that Bishop William Charles White FRSC,
the Anglican missionary bishop to Honan, China, who was from Canada,
was the primary supplier of Chinese arts, antiques and antiquities to
the ROM [Royal Ontario Museum, Toronto].
Thank you for helping me learn about these men connected with my birthplace.

Magnificent bottle.
So 'Shibui', with only the taotie, the foot rim, and the neck rim
in ruby red overlay.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 27, 2024, 07:09:50 am
I thank everyone for there comments. This bottle has the deepest carved ring handles I have ever seen. This next bottle [70mm] has a more unusual color combination. It probably looks totally different with snuff in it. From an auction in 2017.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 27, 2024, 02:01:01 pm
It is a very acceptable example, though not
a 'showstopper'.
Possibly with snuff inside it would look different.
Why don't you fill it with instant coffee and take a photo?
Lot cheaper than filling it with snuff... ;)
Best,
joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 28, 2024, 08:07:06 am
Joey, I will try and fill it with snuff. This next bottle [55mm] comes from the collection I bought in 2002. Nice carving and footrim.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 28, 2024, 07:15:08 pm
John,

   Is that a Praying Mantis on the front?
I love that insect, though it sounds strange to say it
or write it.  ::) :o ;D
I'd date your bottle to 19th C., but it could be a bit earlier.

I had a wonderful pale green overlay on white bubble glass,
carved with praying mantises on foliage and on rock work.
It was #24 in my 1987 Israel Museum Jerusalem catalogue.
I bought it from the late Rick Rhodes z"l, whose 4th Yahrzeit
we just commemorated [Hebrew date of 29.Tevet fell on 10.
January 2024; English date was26.January 2024].
Best,
Joey




Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 29, 2024, 11:17:13 am
Joey, that is a mantis. I would date it 1780 to 1850. This next bottle [54mm] is an unusual turquoise blue overlay on an off-white body. Very fine carving. From an internet auction in 2003.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 29, 2024, 07:57:33 pm
John,

    Yes, I can see a dating of ca. 1780 - 1850 for your
Praying Mantis bottle.
You wrote just 'Mantis'. Is that a short form of Praying Mantis,
or a different variety of 'Mantis'?
Best,
joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 30, 2024, 07:28:33 am
Joey, that is the short form because I hate typing. You did not comment on the last bottle. I filled the bottle in post #164 with snuff. It does give it a different look.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on January 30, 2024, 04:42:28 pm
Dear John,

    Wow!
It looks wonderful.
Where did you get all the snuff?
I have enough snuff to give out at Synagogue on Shabbat
[Saturday], when Jews who smoke and are Sabbath Observant,
CAN'T smoke and need to get their nicotine fix through a different
orifice [the nose rather than the mouth].
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: richy88 on January 30, 2024, 07:53:39 pm
Hi John

The overlay on the bottle in post #168 has a pleasing and unusual colour.

Nice!

Regards.


Richard



Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on January 31, 2024, 04:56:43 am
Dear John, I was thinking the same as Richerd. That pale blue is unusual, the most common blue is darker. I am not saying that this is a problem, BTW. Nice bottle.
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on January 31, 2024, 08:16:17 am
Joey, I keep all the snuff I find in my bottles in a B&W jarlet. Richard and Giovanni, thanks for pointing out the color and quality of the blue overlay. This next bottle [59mm] is from an auction in 2015. A lot of movement in the carving.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 03, 2024, 07:14:38 am
One of my earliest finds at the local antique store. Nice carving on an opalescent snowstorm glass body [55mm].


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: joearp on February 03, 2024, 01:36:10 pm
Lovely Bottle John.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 03, 2024, 06:59:59 pm
Dear John,

    I was bothered by the turquoise blue overlay, till
I saw that I used to own a turquoise blue octagonal glass
snuff bottle, Beijing Imperial Glass Works with a genuine
wheel-cut Daoguang mark and of the period.
The bottle was from the collection of Marion Mayer, a noted early
collector of glass snuff bottles.
She exhibited her collection in the Steuben Glass Gallery in NYC [at 667 Madison Ave]
during the 1982 ICSBS convention at the Waldorf Astoria. 
She produced a singularly ugly and hard to utilise catalogue for the
exhibition.
And the red overlay with the dragons is stunning.
I have not looked carefully at your latest red overlay, but will.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 04, 2024, 01:54:54 pm
Thanks Jo and Joey. The next bottle features koi and lotus on a snowflake ground. From an auction in 2014.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 04, 2024, 04:20:15 pm
John, yet another beauty.
What is the height?
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 05, 2024, 08:09:55 am
Joey, the height is [72mm]. This bottle [71mm] is from the same collection.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 05, 2024, 11:46:50 am
Wonderful collection, John.
I love the oval indented foot formed by the bottom of the water lily.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 06, 2024, 07:32:24 am
Thanks Joey. This is a later copy [58mm] of the magnificent bottle in the Bloch Collection. A depiction of metal staples used to repair porcelain. From an auction in 2004.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 06, 2024, 02:19:25 pm
Wonderful, John.

 In Ireland, I have a pair of large pots, each 70cm x 40cm x 50cm high.
They were for storing '1,000 year old eggs'.
Both were broken and repaired with staples in China.
GOLD alloy staples.

My friend Timothy O'Mahony, from whom I purchased Rainsford Lodge,
left me the two pots, in front of the main entrance, as a gift.
He explained that "some edjit" stapled them together after they were
broken. Tim removed the staples and 'fixed' the pots with contact cement!

I found 3 staples which had fallen inside a pot, and got them tested.
They were 15K gold!
I showed them to Tim and asked where the rest were. When he found out they
were gold, he was in shock.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 07, 2024, 08:06:54 am
Joey, great story! I did not know they used gold. This bottle picked for display at the Philadelphia convention is quite striking [59mm].


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 07, 2024, 08:14:06 am
Dear John,

   It's NOT "striking"; it's Magnificent !
And Imperial Glass Works, and probably
ca. 1730 - 1800.
I love the oval indented foot, as well as the
traditional flanking archaistic dragons surrounding the
Shou symbol.
I can well see why it was chosen for inclusion for the
exhibition in Philadelphia.
Is that 2024?
Sadly I'll not be able to attend Toronto in 2025.
It conflicts with the end of our High Holy Days...
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 08, 2024, 12:04:45 pm
Joey, it is the 2024 convention. This next bottle [55mm] is well carved. From an internet auction in 2014.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 08, 2024, 05:11:29 pm
John,

   I love this subject of scholarly items.
And indeed very well carved.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 09, 2024, 07:57:18 am
Next, an unusual green on pink overlay with bat loop handles [60mm]. From my local auction in 2015.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 09, 2024, 05:20:56 pm
Dear John,

    A very interesting example.
I don't remember ever seeing Bat ring handles like these before.
Are there 5 bats [wufu, Rebus for 5 blessings, in a different intonation]
per side, or 4, and a bat handle makes up the 5th per side; or a total of
5 bats? Or?
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 10, 2024, 08:11:04 am
Joey, there are 3 on the one side and one on each handle makes 5. This next bottle [55mm] has 9 chi dragons, one hiding as the footrim. From an auction in 2012.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 10, 2024, 06:53:50 pm
Which is NOT a rebus for the Qianlong Emperor :
'qian' = 9  &  'long' = dragon
And a beautiful bottle with perfect ruby red glass.
I'd date it to 1760 - 1800.
And Beijing Palace Glass Workshops.
Best,
Joey

See Richard's post, below.
And my response.
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: richy88 on February 11, 2024, 01:57:55 am
Hi John

Great design on the nine dragons.

This design symbolizes utmost power. In Chinese culture. nine is the biggest number and the dragon is a symbol of power and the emperor. As five is the middle number of the nine numbers, it is also considered as an important and powerful number. Therefore, in ancient China, the emperor is also known as Jiu Wu Zhi Zun (九五至尊).

At the Imperial Palace in Beijing, there is a famous Nine Dragons Screen Wall featuring nine dragons with a yellow dragon in the middle. The yellow colour is considered the imperial colour and is only reserved for the royal family.

As for the rebus for the Qianlong Emperor, I beg to differ.

Qian Long (乾隆) which is made up of Qian (乾) which means the heaven/sky and Long (隆) is prosperous. Therefore, the reign name of Qian Long is a short form of the proverb, Tian Dao Chang Long (天道昌隆) means "May heaven continue to bless the prosperity".

For your reference.

Regards.


Richard



Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on February 11, 2024, 02:28:54 am
Dear Richard,
thank you for another instructive post.
Dear John, I continue being admired by your collection of glass bottles. The pink bottle with green overlay is full of symbols: bats, qilongs, coins. I have never seen before bat loop handles. And how nice also the red overlay bottle before it!
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 11, 2024, 07:35:53 am
I thank everyone for their comments. Richard, again I am learning new things from you. I have seen the 9 Dragons Screen Wall in photos. This next bottle [59mm] has unusual carving of lanterns on a pole. From an auction in 2011.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 11, 2024, 05:38:40 pm
Hi John

Great design on the nine dragons.

This design symbolizes utmost power. In Chinese culture. nine is the biggest number and the dragon is a symbol of power and the emperor. As five is the middle number of the nine numbers, it is also considered as an important and powerful number. Therefore, in ancient China, the emperor is also known as Jiu Wu Zhi Zun (九五至尊).

At the Imperial Palace in Beijing, there is a famous Nine Dragons Screen Wall featuring nine dragons with a yellow dragon in the middle. The yellow colour is considered the imperial colour and is only reserved for the royal family.

As for the rebus for the Qianlong Emperor, I beg to defer.

Qian Long (乾隆) which is made up of Qian (乾) which means the heaven/sky and Long (隆) is prosperous. Therefore, the reign name of Qian Long is a short form of the proverb, Tian Dao Chang Long (天道昌隆) means "May heaven continue to bless the prosperity".

For your reference.

Regards.


Richard



Dear Richard,

   You DON'T beg to DEFER; you beg to DIFFER.
I beg to DEFER to your superior knowledge, especially considering
it is your native language, as English is mine.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 11, 2024, 05:41:27 pm
John,

    That 'landscape' red overlay is amazing!
Wonderful example.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: richy88 on February 11, 2024, 09:49:52 pm
Thanks, Josy.

Sorry for the typo.

Regards.


Richard


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 12, 2024, 07:08:13 am
Dear Richard,

    Not a problem.
Best from Josy  ::) :o ;D


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 12, 2024, 07:32:26 am
The next bottle [60mm] is an unusual double overlay of black on red. From the Collection of Sy Ellenhorn former ICSBS member.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 12, 2024, 05:16:22 pm
Dear John,

   There is so little of the red overlay under the black overlay visible,
one wonders why the artist bothered.
But it is a very well made bottle.
The name Sy Ellenhorn z"l is familiar but I can't recall much.
I know he was Jewish and his given name was Seymour.
And he was from Maryland and died in late December 2020.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 13, 2024, 08:42:05 am
Joey, I went to visit Sy at his home in 1999. He showed my his impressive lapidary set up in his basement. One of my favorite kui dragon bottles [65mm] from an auction in 2012. Maybe Richard knows if this forms a Chinese character.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: snuffmke on February 13, 2024, 05:07:49 pm
John,

Really love that one. The dragons forming the character is really interesting.

Brian


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: joearp on February 13, 2024, 08:27:26 pm
Agree...Gorgeous Bottle.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: richy88 on February 14, 2024, 04:32:59 am
Hi John

It formed the character, Long - dragon.

Regards.


Richard


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 14, 2024, 08:02:57 am
Everyone, thanks for your comments. Richard, thanks for confirming the character. This next Yangzhou School bottle has foo lions and birds. From an internet auction in 2002.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 14, 2024, 08:41:19 pm
Joey, I went to visit Sy at his home in 1999. He showed my his impressive lapidary set up in his basement. One of my favorite kui dragon bottles [65mm] from an auction in 2012. Maybe Richard knows if this forms a Chinese character.

John,

  That's a classic Imperial Palace Glass works design from the Qianlong period.
Wonderful!
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 14, 2024, 08:44:18 pm
John,

The Yangzhou Seal School bottle, ca. 1820-1880 is very
fine. And it's got bats [Fu = Blessing] and the Pekinese has a brocade ball.
I guess they could be Foo Lions, but I see them as Pekinese...
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 16, 2024, 12:08:58 pm
This next example [59mm] features koi and lotus again. It is amazing how many different ways these are portrayed. From an auction in 2015.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 16, 2024, 05:59:03 pm
This is because it is a much loved subject, John.
And a Rebus blessing the owner with continuous plenty year after year.
Fish {yu} and Lotus {lian} = Liannian youyu
See 6:11:4 in Terese Tse Bartholomew's magnum opus,
Hidden Meanings in Chinese Art.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 17, 2024, 07:54:45 am
Joey, thanks for the information. Another with the same motif [55mm] with the lotus forming the base. From an auction in 2001.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 17, 2024, 05:37:38 pm
Very nice as well, John.
Is the plant visible to the left of the carp on the first
photo and taking up most of the 4th photo
millet or the saltshaker seedpod of the lotus?
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 18, 2024, 08:04:13 am
Joey, since it is coming from the lotus I would say it is a seedpod. This next example [69mm] features numerous double gourds and tendrils. From an internet auction in 2014.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: George on February 18, 2024, 04:21:44 pm
Wish I could contribute some help towards your bottles John. Really nice to see Richard, Joey and others giving such valuable information.

I just have to keep saying how beautiful your collection is. All are so stunning.

I do have a question. What is the dot above the carp supposed to represent? I had this same motif on a bottle and remember Charll also had one similar.  I never did figure out what that is supposed to be.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: rpfstoneman on February 18, 2024, 04:28:00 pm

George,

I always expected that represented a 'splash' of water.   Charll


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 18, 2024, 06:05:44 pm
George, I'm sorry but I disagree.
You DO contribute!
I never even noticed the dot of red glass,
and now will try to find out what it means.
But also in IPSBs, I've often been amazed at your powers
of observation, noticing details I never even thought of.
Such as how a specific artist shades the trunks of his trees.
Or the way another artist draws his horses or donkeys.
Best,
Joey


Wish I could contribute some help towards your bottles John. Really nice to see Richard, Joey and others giving such valuable information.

I just have to keep saying how beautiful your collection is. All are so stunning.

I do have a question. What is the dot above the carp supposed to represent? I had this same motif on a bottle and remember Charll also had one similar.  I never did figure out what that is supposed to be.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 18, 2024, 06:10:18 pm
Thank you, John.

  The bottle with gourds and vines is much more schematic and
doesn't flow the way I have always found the carving on 18th C. bottles
to flow, more organically. And the red is not as brilliant as  on 18th C. examples.
So I'd say that this bottle is ca. 1800 - 1880.
Having written that, the shape seems earlier.
If anyone has a counter argument, I'd love to see it.
Best,
joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 19, 2024, 01:00:02 pm
George, thanks for your nice comment. I agree with Charll that is a splash of water unless Richard has some other meaning. Joey, I would date the bottle 1820 to 1880. This next bottle [57mm] is carved with longevity symbols. From an internet auction in 2000.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 19, 2024, 02:05:36 pm
Dear John,

    Yes, there are symbols meant to wish longevity,
but displayed as part of a continuous landscape
with human figures.
This bottle I'd date ca. 1780 - 1850.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 20, 2024, 01:39:53 pm
Joey, I would agree with that dating. The next bottle [61mm] features a bat and peach, the reverse with a pomegranate and peach. The overlays on a clear body are very difficult to photograph.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 20, 2024, 05:42:07 pm
See what you mean, John.
So what can you say about it?
Style, quality of carving, and possible dating.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 21, 2024, 08:09:54 am
Joey, I would say the style, carving and color of the glass point to a mid 19th century dating. Probably a similar dating with this turquoise green overlay on clear bubble glass [66mm]. From an auction in 2006.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 21, 2024, 06:52:35 pm
OK. Thanks.
Yes I can see that dating for both.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: George on February 21, 2024, 08:41:22 pm
Probably a similar dating with this turquoise green overlay on clear bubble glass [66mm]. From an auction in 2006.

Lovely bottle !


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: richy88 on February 22, 2024, 01:06:27 am
Hi John & all

I refer to the round dot on the leaping carp bottle in Post #210.

While Charll is not wrong to suggest that it is a drop of water, Chinese art usually does not realistically present its subject.

In traditional Chinese art, every element in the design serves a purpose and usually has a hidden meaning.

In this case, the round object is a pearl.

According to the legend of the carp leaping over Long Men to turn into a dragon, this motif depicts this process.

The carp throws out a precious pearl while struggling to leap over the gate. The pearl is considered a rare and precious object and is also auspicious. Therefore, coupled with the good wishes for success, the pearl represents an auspicious greeting.

For your reference.

Regards.


Richard


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 22, 2024, 10:59:28 am
Richard, thanks for the info on the carp throwing out the precious pearl. I had no idea. This next bottle [61mm] shows precious objects. Maybe Richard can elaborate. From an internet auction in 2005.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: rpfstoneman on February 22, 2024, 01:04:13 pm

John, I like this bottle.  Very clean with easily seen details and crisp design.  Charll


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 22, 2024, 02:13:58 pm
Very nice example, John.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: George on February 23, 2024, 10:02:59 am


In this case, the round object is a pearl.

According to the legend of the carp leaping over Long Men to turn into a dragon, this motif depicts this process.

The carp throws out a precious pearl while struggling to leap over the gate. The pearl is considered a rare and precious object and is also auspicious. Therefore, coupled with the good wishes for success, the pearl represents an auspicious greeting.

For your reference.

Regards.


Richard


Thank you Richard !


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 23, 2024, 11:04:00 am
Charll and Joey, thanks for the comments. I think it is one of the better examples, not over crowded and well carved. This next bottle [63mm] features plum and a butterfly. The bottom also carved with plum flowers. From an auction in 2013.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 23, 2024, 04:02:56 pm
Dear John,

   I prefer this bottle to the previous one,
though it is also very well made.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: richy88 on February 23, 2024, 10:37:27 pm
Hi John

The motif on the previous bottle is known as Bogutu (博古图) which usually features a collection of scholarly objects and antiques.

The earliest painting of this subject was from the Northern Song Dynasty when Emperor Song Huizhong (宋徽宗) instructed his Imperial Art Academy to paint a series of thirty paintings to record his collection of antiques consisting of bronzes, porcelain, jades and stones.

For your reference.

Regards.


Richard


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 24, 2024, 01:46:01 pm
Richard, thanks for the information. Would this example [73mm] also be considered Bogutu ?


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 24, 2024, 07:39:25 pm
Thank you, Richard. I've copied the info on Bogutu for my cataloguing.
I've a number of bottles with this subject.
Best.
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 24, 2024, 07:41:39 pm
John,

   I'd take a wild guess and say that it is also 'Bogutu'.

Richard,

    Is the third character a simplified version of 'Tu' [picture]?
Best,
joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: richy88 on February 24, 2024, 10:20:05 pm
Hi John & Joey

Yes, it is.

Joey, the character is a simplified Chinese character for Tu. The original traditional Chinese character is 圖.

Regards.


Richard


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 25, 2024, 06:31:02 am
Thank you, Richard.
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 25, 2024, 08:08:21 am
Richard, thanks for the confirmation. This next example [54mm] is not an overlay but an applique. Very slight traces of glue. I wish I knew how they did this. I am thinking Guangxu


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 27, 2024, 08:03:32 am
Another unusual example with the 8 Trigrams [72mm]. Even the fish scales are reversed. From an internet auction in 2009.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 27, 2024, 02:30:43 pm
Richard, thanks for the confirmation. This next example [54mm] is not an overlay but an applique. Very slight traces of glue. I wish I knew how they did this. I am thinking Guangxu

John,

   I also have an 'appliqué' glass snuff bottle,
but of the much more common type with flower heads,
and connected to each other with 'threads' of glass.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 27, 2024, 02:32:49 pm
John,

The bottle with the 8 trigrams is very good and a rare subject.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 28, 2024, 08:08:12 am
Joey, I agree you do not see many of them. This next example [55mm] came from my local auction in 2000. Maybe Richard can figure out the seal.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 28, 2024, 01:12:50 pm
Beautiful Yangzhou Seal School bottle, John.
I love the water buffaloes.
Ca. 1820 - 1880.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on February 29, 2024, 07:30:19 am
This small bottle [55mm] was in consideration for display at the Philadelphia convention. It has a nice red color and a thick white overlay.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on February 29, 2024, 11:23:18 am
Dear John,

 Could the indentations form integral snuff dishes in effect?
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on March 01, 2024, 11:49:03 am
Joey, the overlay is high enough but the center is not concave.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on March 02, 2024, 12:06:33 am
Thanks for the info, John.
A pity.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on March 02, 2024, 08:12:27 am
This double overlay [70mm] is to be displayed at the Philadelphia convention. Very fine carving. Clare's dating 1780 to 1850. From a collection I bought out from N.Y. state in 2000.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on March 02, 2024, 09:04:59 am
Dear John,
your bogutu bottle is like my one (I added “bogutu” to the description of mine. Thanks Richard!) except that on my one the dragon head of the tripod is holding a lamp, while on your bottle it is holding a musical jade stone gong.
I like very much the bottle with the eight trigrams in red overlay.
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on March 02, 2024, 04:45:03 pm
Dear John,

    The double Overlay of white on black on bubble glass is wonderful.
I've seen a small group of these over the years, and all are of superb
quality, as is this example.
I would dispute Clare's dating.
I think that ca. 1750 - 1830 is more correct.
Or at most, ca. 1750 - 1840.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on March 04, 2024, 08:05:20 am
Joey, I agree more with your dating. Another red overlay [56mm] with male and female chi dragons. Nice handles. From an auction in 2016.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on March 04, 2024, 10:41:45 am
Wow! Another gorgeous red overlay with Qilongs
[Qi Dragons].
Ca. 1750 - 1840.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: richy88 on March 04, 2024, 11:55:47 pm
Hi John

The seal mark on post #241 appears to be a pen name, Xiao Mou (小某).

For your reference.

Regards.


Richard


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: rpfstoneman on March 05, 2024, 12:08:44 am

John,

The last chi long bottle is wonderful.   Let me know when you are willing to allow me to add it to my collection.   ;)

Charll


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on March 05, 2024, 06:32:40 am
Very nice indeed!
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on March 05, 2024, 08:08:12 pm
Richard, you never fail to impress us.
Thank you,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on March 06, 2024, 08:05:27 am
Richard, thanks so much for translating the seal. Another "bogutu" bottle [60mm], one of a pair. Nice thick overlay. From an auction in 2015.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on March 06, 2024, 05:43:05 pm
 Another fine example,
but I would date it ca.1800 - 1850.
Please don't ask me why.
I don't know, but that's what 'it said to me',
when I looked at it.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on March 07, 2024, 06:43:23 am
Joey, I agree. The shape and the footrim do not remind me of 18th century workmanship. The other bottle of the set.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on March 07, 2024, 09:52:28 am
Dear John,
impressive collection!
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on March 07, 2024, 09:57:19 am
Dear John,

    The latest one is same dating as the one before it,
but I find it even more pleasing and appealing.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on March 09, 2024, 11:30:22 am
This next example [57mm] has a pomegranate, bat and peach motif on a bubble ground. From an internet auction in 2011.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on March 09, 2024, 06:14:24 pm
Dear John,

   My personal preference is for other colours,
but this is a well made 19th C. example.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on March 13, 2024, 08:12:04 am
This blue overlay [68mm] shows the boy/hero Nazha, perched on the head of the Dragon King of the Eastern Sea. One of my favorite motifs. From an auction in 2004.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on March 13, 2024, 12:07:38 pm
Dear John, very nice bottles, all the last ones as the previous ones.
BTW it is Nezha, not Nazha, it must be a bad typing.
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on March 13, 2024, 05:25:07 pm
A really stunning blue overlay, John.
I would date it ca. 1800 - 1850.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on March 14, 2024, 11:55:42 am
Giovanni, my typing is bad. Joey, I agree with that dating. This probably later example [56mm] features the 8 Buddhist Symbols.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on March 14, 2024, 03:38:49 pm
Good carving, but the colour looks odd to me, John.
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on March 17, 2024, 08:08:52 am
This next Yangzhou example [55mm] I had to shoot on different color backgrounds to see the decoration. From the Collection of Albert and Eva Dunlap authors of "Behind the Bamboo Curtin".


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on March 17, 2024, 03:35:17 pm
Oh, John, the same provenance as my Chalcedony.
'Smuggled out' of Shanghai in 1941.
Interesting that you needed different coloured backgrounds
to properly show the carving.
Happy Patrick's Day [as my neighbours say in County Wexford]
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on March 18, 2024, 08:10:02 am
Joey, Happy St. Patrick's Day to you also. This next bottle [55mm] I have seen several examples of. All are on the white glass body.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on March 18, 2024, 03:05:05 pm
Dear John,

    Is this appliqué glass with applied threading to form the
stems?
I've one like this I bought from Susan Page in 2018 or 2019.
Very nice. I'm assuming that they are ca. 1830 - 1890.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on March 21, 2024, 11:47:51 am
Joey, I do not believe this is applique glass. The overlay is too thin, the overlay is curved around the bottle and there is no trace of glue. This next example [52mm] has similar colors to my post #199. Both of the overlays are finely carved on an incised ground. From the first collection I purchased in 1997.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on March 21, 2024, 02:13:32 pm
John,

   If you know anything about 'Appliqué Glass', you know it is NOT
glued; the appliqués are formed separately, then applied
when both the appliqué and the bottle are hot enough
that the glass appliqué will adhere to the glass bottle.
They can be thin and they can be made to curve around the bottle.
And then a thin thread of glass can be applied if needed.
My bottle has flower head and leaf appliqués applied,
and then a thread of green glass to make the design look like a flower.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on March 23, 2024, 04:54:48 am
It is easy to distinguish between appliqué glass and carved overlay glass.
The contours of the appliqué glass are round toward the inside of the connection, forming a sharp connection; to be clear, if it is a leaf, the border looks going underneath the leaf. Carved glass is rounded toward the background glass. The pictures are too small for judging it clearly, but I agree with Joey, it looks applied glass especially looking at the pink leaves in the last picture.
Dear John, I like your last swimming dragons bottle, with dragons emerging from waves.
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on March 23, 2024, 11:43:47 am
John,

    The appliqué glass snuff bottle I bought from Susan Page in December 2019
was very expensive. They are relatively rare and highly valued.
Mine was previously published in Robert Hall's C.S.B.#1 in 1987, #46.
I will send you a private message as to price.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on March 23, 2024, 02:01:17 pm
A picture of Joey's very fine applique glass snuff bottle.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on March 23, 2024, 08:54:05 pm
Dear John,

    Thank you for posting it on my behalf.
Here is the info on it:
H- 57mm / 2.24 inches [w/o stopper]
Dated ca. 1780 - 1850
Provenance: ex.Bob Hall ltd, London;
Ex.private collection in Netherlands, bought from Bob in 1987;
ex. Susan Page ltd, London, bought by me on 11.December 2019
Illustrated in Chinese Snuff Bottles # 1, Robert Hall ltd., London, # 46.

Ranking [by Clare Chu] : 8***  [Ranking goes 1* - 10***]
As nice as these might be, Appliqué glass SBs don't get much higher
a ranking than 9*. Whereas a fine glass SB or overlay SB could be ranked 10***...
Best,
Joey



Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on March 25, 2024, 08:09:11 am
Joey, thanks for showing everyone your beautiful bottle. This next example [71mm] is finely carved with small handles. From an auction in 2015.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on March 25, 2024, 08:40:34 am
Dear John,

  A beautiful blue overlay.
Thank you for posing it.
19th C. in my opinion.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on March 26, 2024, 11:08:34 am
Joey, I would say 1800 to 1850. This next bottle [62mm] is from the Collection of Al Stempel. Good carving with a lot of longevity symbols.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on March 26, 2024, 01:16:51 pm
Dear John,

    You are correct. When I wrote '19th C.',
I actually meant ca. 1800 - 1850.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on April 01, 2024, 12:08:08 pm
Another blue overlay [58mm] with interesting carving. The one side looks like acanthus leaves but I am not certain. From an auction in 2005.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on April 01, 2024, 03:46:17 pm
Beautiful bottle.
The side with 2 figures shows peach tree foliage.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on April 02, 2024, 01:33:58 pm
The next bottle [60mm] is a black overlay on milk glass featuring a koi and lotus and a crane and millet. From an early auction in 2002.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on April 02, 2024, 01:48:03 pm
John,

   It looks well made, but I don't like Black overlays.
They look 'depressing' to me. :-[ :'(
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on April 10, 2024, 07:24:57 am
Joey, I hope you will like this one as it is my favorite black overlay [55mm]. Very detailed carving of the butterflies and a nice footrim.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on April 11, 2024, 05:29:00 pm
John,

   I can see why it's your favourite Black overlay.
It's now my favourite black overlay as well.
Black on Pink is not at all depressing!
A Beauty,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: joearp on April 12, 2024, 10:33:30 am
Cheerful!


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on April 12, 2024, 12:33:35 pm
Joey and Jo, I hope you are both cheered up! This next Yangzhou example [61mm] features an unusual scholars rock motif. From an internet auction in 2005.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on April 12, 2024, 07:31:34 pm
John,

  Your Yangzhou example is very interesting, especially since these
are traditionally called 'Yangzhou Seal School' and dated to ca. 1820-1880,
but yours is 'sans' seal.
But very fine and looks in very good condition.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on May 03, 2024, 11:47:46 am
A sapphire blue overlay [67mm] on a clear body with two confronting bats. From an auction in 2005.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on May 03, 2024, 03:18:03 pm
This bottle is very interesting, John.
I would have expected 5 bats [Wufu in Pinyin; a rebus for 'The 5 Blessings'].
I wonder if the original stopper had a bat...
Very beautiful shade of blue, as well.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on May 06, 2024, 01:30:52 pm
Joey, I agree it would be better with 5 bats. Sometimes I find it hard to date these later multicolor overlay bottles [61mm]. Obviously not 18th century.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on May 06, 2024, 06:53:50 pm
Dear John,

   I always simply date them '19th C.'...
Simple.
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on May 07, 2024, 12:28:45 pm
Joey, I think that would make it easier. Another of the same sort [65mm], but I like the extra work in carving the footrim.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on May 07, 2024, 06:12:19 pm
Dear John,

 The extra carving on the footrim does raise this example
a bit above the previous one, but I also like the attention to
detail exemplified by making sure each flower head has one colour.
In the previous one, there is green as part of the blue flower's petals,
and on 2 red flowers.
In this one, I think the yellow on the bird's beak and face are intentional.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on May 08, 2024, 12:30:46 pm
Joey, I agree this one is a little higher level and the yellow on the beak is intentional.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on May 14, 2024, 11:28:00 am
Another bottle [65mm] from the estate of Gary Mack. Low relief carving of 5 bats surrounding a shou character.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on May 14, 2024, 02:37:10 pm
Dear John,

   Another beautiful example, and great provenance.
Even though it is black overlay on milk, the preponderance
of milk glass over black makes this a very pleasing combination.
Whereas if the black was more prominent it would be depressing.
Due to the style of the bats' wings, I'd date this to ca. 1790 - 1830.
Best,
joey


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: bambooforrest on May 16, 2024, 08:03:25 am
Joey, I would probably date it a little later because of the footrim. This next bottle [64mm] features a chi dragon, its tail in it's mouth. From an auction in 2003.


Title: Re: Glass Cameo Snuff Bottles
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on May 16, 2024, 07:45:44 pm
Another beauty, John.
I'd date it ca. 1800 - 1850.
Best,
Joey