Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇

Public Forum Categories and Boards => Symbolism and Meanings => Topic started by: richy88 on October 23, 2013, 02:48:24 am



Title: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: richy88 on October 23, 2013, 02:48:24 am
Hi All

As most of us know, most of the designs in Chinese arts are used to convey a message with an auspicious meaning. Sometimes, the components used have hidden meaning and significance. One common practice is to use object with the same Chinese pronounciation to represent the underlying meaning.

One popular theme is to wish one a speedy promotion, using the term "Feng Hou" (封侯) meaning Promoted to a Marquis. The animals used in this subject is usually the bee (蜂) which has the same pronounciation as promote (封) and the monkey (猴) which sounds like marquis (侯).

Sometimes, the horse is added if the rebus "Ma Shang Feng Hou" (马上封侯) which means "May you be promoted to the rank of Marquis immediately" is used. The characters (马上) in Chinese means right away or immediately and hence, the horse (马). It is an auspicious expression to wish someone speedy success. 

Here is a typical example:

A shadow agate bottle carved using the dark inclusions to depict a bee with a monkey on a horse for the rebus, "Ma Shang Feng Hou" (马上封侯). The reverse carved with a bird diving down towards another bird standing on a rockwork using the dark inclusions. Height: 60 mm.

Enjoy!


Richard


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on October 23, 2013, 05:46:02 am
Very nice bottle. Dear Richard, I am always impressed by the quality of your collection. Thank you for showing it.
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: richy88 on October 23, 2013, 08:33:33 am
Thank you for your kind words, Giovanni!

Wishing you a full recovery!

Regards.



Richard


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: George on October 23, 2013, 11:18:21 am
Another beautiful bottle Richard !


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Pat - 查尚杰 on October 23, 2013, 09:57:52 pm
Indeed! 

Richard

Do you have any suggestion for a book to uncover these hidden meanings other than the Raymond Li book?  Thanks!


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: George on October 24, 2013, 12:24:20 am
Indeed! 

Richard

Do you have any suggestion for a book to uncover these hidden meanings other than the Raymond Li book?  Thanks!

Excelent question and I would love to know any others than my one C.A.S. Williams, Chinese Symbolism and Art Motifs book .. !


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: richy88 on October 24, 2013, 12:40:55 am
Hi Pat & George

As far as I know, unfortunately no. The other literature on these subjects are written in Chinese.

I understand from some past postings by Joey that there is a book in symbolism in Chinese arts which I have no access at present. Therefore, I am no sure how relevant it the information.

For your reference.

Regards.


Richard



Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Wattana on October 24, 2013, 12:43:30 am
All these books have been mentioned on the forum recently...

Terese Tse Bartholomew. Hidden Meanings in Chinese Art. 2006.

C.A.S. Williams. Outlines of Chinese Symbolism and Art Motives. Dover Publications. New York, 1976.

E.T.C. Werner. Myths and Legends of China. London, 1922 [reprint by Dover Publications, New York, 1994].


Plus, of course, the six Raymond Li books:

Raymond Li. A Glossary of Snuff Bottle Rebus. Nine Dragons. Hong Kong, 1976.

Raymond Li. The Medicine-Snuff Bottle Connection. Nine Dragons. Hong Kong,1979.

Raymond Li. Snuff Bottle Terminology. Nine Dragons. Hong Kong, 1981.

Raymond Li. Chinese Snuff Bottle Themes. Nine Dragons. Hong Kong, 1983.

Raymond Li. The Art of Imitation in Chinese Snuff Bottles. Nine Dragons. Hong Kong, 1985.

Raymond Li. The Miniature Arts in China: Toggles Pendants and Other Accessories. Nine Dragons. Hong Kong, 1988.

If there are any others out there (in English), I'd be interested to know too.

Tom
PS: there is another book on Chinese symbolism by an Americal lady (her name escapes me). She gave a talk at the Siam Society in Bangkok 3-4 years ago to launch her book. But from what I recall from a quick browse, there was nothing more in it than the Bartholomew book. I didn't buy it.


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Pat - 查尚杰 on October 24, 2013, 01:02:38 am
Thanks Tom! 


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: richy88 on October 24, 2013, 01:07:17 am
Hi Tom

Thanks for compiling all the relevant sources. It's good reference.

Regards.


Richard


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: richy88 on October 24, 2013, 01:21:57 am
Hi All

Here is a variation to the theme. It is known as Wan Dai Feng Hou (万代封侯) or Dai Dai Feng Hou (代代封侯) meaning "May you (and your children) be a marquis for many generations". Wan (万) is ten thousand in Chinese and Dai (代) means generations.

In this example, the pebble shape white jade bottle of even translucent tone is carved with a monkey on the top left hand corner clinching to a pouch fastened with a ribbon/strap. In Chinese, the word for pouch, Dai (袋) and ribbon/strap, Dai (带) has the same pronounciation as Dai (代) and hence, the design.

Enjoy!


Richard


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Wattana on October 24, 2013, 01:32:31 am
George and All,

In my opinion some of the recent posts explaining the symbolism and alternative rebuses are better than any of the English books on the subject.  They are also "snuff bottle specific", unlike all the books except for Raymond Li's publications.

I think it would be a good idea to transfer these posts into a new thread dedicated to Symbols and Meanings in Snuff Bottles.

Tom


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: George on October 24, 2013, 02:04:21 am
.

I think it would be a good idea to transfer these posts into a new thread dedicated to Symbols and Meanings in Snuff Bottles.



I really enjoy having a good reference book or two in front of me...

I really apprecaite those Raymond Li references.. Going on a hunt right away..

As for plucking posts out of existing topics.. Sort of hate to loose those posts for fear a breaking the harmony of the topic..

Would be best to create a whole new topic dedicated to "symbolism and meanings" within this same Themes, Scenes, Scrolls and Paintings board..   

Actually, I think will do that right now..  Then will copy and paste some of information from within these early posts to the new topic..



Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: richy88 on October 24, 2013, 02:12:23 am
Good idea, Tom and George!

Thanks!



Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: George on October 24, 2013, 02:12:41 am
Changed my other mind  :D

Decided on a new board...

Again, very strange how things happen around here..

I was searching for a specific landscape theme earler this evening, and kept looking at my C.A.S. Williams, Chinese Symbolism and Art Motif book thinking about starting to post some from that book to the forum..

Then Tom comes up with this idea just a couple of hours later !


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Wattana on October 24, 2013, 02:25:24 am
Great minds think alike......  ;D


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on October 24, 2013, 08:11:32 am
Dear Richard,
for an easy cross reference, this motif has been discussed in the following thread, related to one of Tom’s bottle:
http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,1649.0.html
Also, in the following thread of mine a similar theme has been discussed. It is not clear if it is the same or not, by the way it is an uncommon one:
http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,1186.0.html
Dear Tom,
I agree with you that Therese Tse Bartholomew’s book is a must, a really good book on the matter. In the list that you have provided there is also “The Art of Imitation in Chinese Snuff Bottles”. I am looking for that book but the copies that I found up to now are a bit expensive. Is it a valid book?
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: richy88 on October 24, 2013, 09:41:34 am
Hi Giovanni

Thank you for taking the trouble to search and compile the relevant threads together.

Appreciated.

"The Art of Imitation in Chinese Snuff Bottles” by Raymond Li does not contain much information on symbolism. Rather, it focus on bottle imitation other material, for example, porcelain imitating jade, glass imitating stone, etc. There are many photo illustrations in the book but with little text.

If you wish to get a book on symbolism, his other title: "A Glossary of Snuff Bottle Rebus" may be more relevant.

Regards.


Richard


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on October 24, 2013, 12:03:35 pm
Thank you dear Richard. I have not been clear. I was asking if it is a good book on its own matter, because I do like glass bottles imitating other materials.
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: OIB on October 24, 2013, 09:24:50 pm
Giovanni,

Here is a contribution for sharing from me.

The jade bottle was carved, on one side, a monkey riding on a horse. This is to wish the receipient
" very speedy promotion to the Marquis ". The Chinese expression from the carvinig would be
" 马上 ( immediately ) 封侯 ( be knighted ) ". The reverse side was carved with the traditional three goats ( 三羊 ) with the sun on top. And 羊 has the same sound as 阳 which is the sun.

Inn Bok


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Pat - 查尚杰 on October 24, 2013, 09:39:50 pm
Nice bottle Inn Bok.  Thanks for sharing,  I never knew this kind of color jade existed. 


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: richy88 on October 24, 2013, 10:10:22 pm
Hi Giovanni

In this case, it is quite relevant although it is not limited to just glass imitating other materials.

Regards.


Richard


Thank you dear Richard. I have not been clear. I was asking if it is a good book on its own matter, because I do like glass bottles imitating other materials.
Kind regards
Giovanni



Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: George on October 24, 2013, 11:38:44 pm
Nice bottle Inn Bok and interesting description !


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on October 25, 2013, 12:22:30 am
Thank you dear Richard.
Very nice bottle dear Inn Bok, by the pictures it seems that the quality of the carving is quite good.
Giovanni


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: OIB on October 25, 2013, 04:16:31 am
Giovanni,

i forgot to add that in the same idea of " promotion to Marquis ", you may sometime find another object included. It is the " bee " which in Chinese is also pronounced as " Feng " but written as [ 蜂 ]。
On some bottle, you may find a monkey riding on a horse with a bee nearby the monkey or the horse.
This makes it very direct depiction of 马上封侯 :
[ 马 ma (= horse) 上 shang (= above), and the two words together suggest ' immediately ']
[ 封 feng ( = knighted, conferred ) and word with similar sound include  蜂 ( =bee) ]
[ 候 hou ( = marquis, high officials ) and word with similar sound include 猴 (= monkey )

The fun of Chinese !

Inn Bok


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Pat - 查尚杰 on October 25, 2013, 04:53:23 am
Thanks for that Inn Bok. That's why we need you chinese readers amd writers here. My gosh.. complicated. ..


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: George on October 25, 2013, 05:22:06 am
Yes, thank you Inn Bok !  :)


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: George on October 28, 2013, 10:58:19 am

Terese Tse Bartholomew. Hidden Meanings in Chinese Art. 2006.


Here are a few copies...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hidden-Meanings-in-Chinese-Art-HARDCOVER-/170983404631?pt=Antiquarian_Collectible&hash=item27cf67b457


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Wattana on October 28, 2013, 09:32:00 pm
Thanks George,

That is the going price for the hard cover version.
If anyone wants a paperback copy, they cost far less:

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Bartholomew&sts=t&tn=Hidden+Meanings (http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Bartholomew&sts=t&tn=Hidden+Meanings)

Tom


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on October 29, 2013, 12:59:23 am
Dear Inn Bok,
    I have a bottle by Chen Zhongsan (I think; I don't have a 1998 catalogue handy), with the bee, monkey and horse and possibly a B & W one as well in my 2007 catalogue.
Joey


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: George on October 29, 2013, 01:05:22 am


Raymond Li. A Glossary of Snuff Bottle Rebus. Nine Dragons. Hong Kong, 1976.

Raymond Li. The Medicine-Snuff Bottle Connection. Nine Dragons. Hong Kong,1979.

Raymond Li. Snuff Bottle Terminology. Nine Dragons. Hong Kong, 1981.

Raymond Li. Chinese Snuff Bottle Themes. Nine Dragons. Hong Kong, 1983.


Thanks Tom...

Lots cheaper....

Here are a few of the Raymond Li books.. (http://www.ebay.fr/sch/m.html?_odkw=li&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_ssn=bdite&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR10.TRC0.A0.Xraymondli&_nkw=raymond+li&_sacat=0)  Maybe they are cheaper as well someplace else... Have not looked..



Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Wattana on October 29, 2013, 02:33:27 am
Guys,

Ebay is NOT the best place to find OOP (out-of-print) books. Those Raymond Li books may be worth 50 Euros each..............but you can find much better deals on Abebooks anyday. That's because over 13,000 book dealers use Abebooks, which forces them to set the market value of any title realistically.

Here is today's list of available Raymond Li books:

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Raymond+Li&kn=snuff&sts=t (http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Raymond+Li&kn=snuff&sts=t)

I have been using Abebooks since 2001, and highly recommend it. Of the hundred plus OOP books I have bought, only one did not match the condition described by the seller, and I was able to send it back to him.

Tom


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on October 29, 2013, 03:22:01 am
Thank you dear Tom. Just ordered "The art of imitation ...." at good price.
Giovanni


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Wattana on October 29, 2013, 03:46:23 am
Dear Giovanni,

You are most welcome!

Tom


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: richy88 on October 29, 2013, 09:08:15 am
Another example of bottle with the rebus, "Ma Shang Feng Hou" (马上封侯) theme.

A shadow agate bottle carved using the dark inclusions to depict a monkey dressed in official costume riding a horse.  The reverse left plain. Height: 60 mm.

Provenance: Floyd W. Ohliger

Illustrated: One of the bottles on the cover photo of ICSBS Journal, September 1979 issue.


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Steven on October 29, 2013, 11:09:52 am
Love this bottle Richard!


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Wattana on October 29, 2013, 08:58:33 pm
Yes, I agree. It's a wonderful bottle, with a sense of humour.


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Pat - 查尚杰 on October 29, 2013, 09:41:21 pm
Incredible... love it Richard!  very creative how they did the saddle and the monkey in the dark inclusion and the white/transparent part for the horse and the monkey's face.  A treasure this one... 


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: OIB on October 30, 2013, 02:45:25 am
Quite creatively done indeed, Richard.

Inn Bok


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on October 30, 2013, 02:55:02 am
Dear Richard thank you for posting your incredible collection. I agree with Tom, this bottle has a sense of humour. The monkey looks more like a bear than a monkey :).
Giovanni


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: richy88 on November 01, 2013, 10:04:20 am
Hi All

Here is a chalcedony bottle based on the same theme but with a twist.

Instead of the normal depiction of the horse and the monkey, this bottle has two of each! Perhaps to indicate a 'double promotion'?  ;D

The chalcedony bottle of rich honey brown ground carved using the white skin of the stone to feature two horses, one lazing on the side with the other one chewing happily away. On one the horses are two monkey carved using the third greyish brown skin, one of them picking some fruits from a nearby tree carved in white, and another appearing to be supporting him. The other side of the bottle left plain.

This bottle is unusual not only in design but the material itself as well. If one notices, the stone comprises of three layers in different colours. The base is of a clear, rich honey brown colour with the white skin sandwiched as the middle layer. The top skin layer of greyish brown colour is used to carve the monkeys.

I called this type of stone, the 'amazing three layers' whereas Tom prefer to refer it as the 'triple decker'!

Enjoy!


Richard






Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Pat - 查尚杰 on November 01, 2013, 10:45:19 am
It is a beauty Richard.


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush on November 01, 2013, 04:55:18 pm
An incredible bottle dear Richard, thank you for showing it.
Giovanni


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: George on November 01, 2013, 06:51:49 pm
Beautiful !


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on November 01, 2013, 10:03:13 pm
Dear Richard,
   The carving is really good, and the shape is 'right', but i think it is modern. Which makes me wonder how they can do bottles as good as the old ones.
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: richy88 on November 02, 2013, 03:05:46 am
Thanks, guys!

Joey, in my opinion, it should not be too difficult for the contemporary artists to produce a good piece of work, if not better than their predecessors.

The reason is simple, they now have access to better tools and more advanced techniques. Therefore, if they can find materials of good quality, they should be able to produce pieces of the same standard, if not better.

What probably could be lacking may be the passion, pride, patience and persistence to produce such pieces. As in this fast moving world today, many want quick results, fast returns with minimum effort and time.

Just my two cents.

Regards.


Richard







Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: George on November 02, 2013, 03:52:47 am
I am constantly amazed at these modern carved bottles..

My lapidary eye sees the neck, body, and the area where the neck meets the body, and recognize the extreme difficulty in working through those areas with the steps required to accomplish a final polish. There are several steps, and not a one can be skipped, or poorly done..

I would sure like to be a fly on the wall within a Chinese agate carving shop... ! They are using equipment/tools, and accessories that I bet would be completely foriegn to myself and any other lapidary I have known, and they are not sharing with anyone outside of China !  :D

Then aside from the astonishing ability to create such beautiful pieces, they are using dying/coloring techniques that are very unusual, and do not apply to any known dying and or heat treating processes that I am aware of... They really do have a nice trick going on, and again, I would love to be a fly on the wall..

I see a great many of these cameo carved type bottles where the raised cameo carving is different in color ( usually white or black ) from the body of the bottle.. There are so many that I see that are completely unatural to what a natural stock piece of agate rough would look like.. Just not natural.. Some are, like the fan type inclussions talked about in another topic, but a great many are completely unatural.. Some folks want to attribute a raised colored cameo to the "rhine" area of the original rough..  Just not so... The rhine areas on the external part of the original chunk of agate, and most other mineral types is extremely soft and pourus... Completey unusable in terms of grinding, sanding, polishing etc..

Several years ago, prior to actually doing lapidary, I was buying gemstone cabochons from a wholesaler in China and reselling here in the States.. After asking him several times to give me a glimps into his shop, he finally reluctantly sent me a couple of snap shots... He asked me to be sure and not share them online.. Apparently he could get in big trouble with the local authorities.. He shared many fears with me of the local authorities.. 

Sorry for rambling on, but my eye sees both extremely interesting, and also unkown techniques being used..

I don't know if any of our Chinese members have had or might consider gaining access to one of these agate carver shops, but from a lapidary perspective, I bet it would be a real eye opener !!


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Pat - 查尚杰 on November 02, 2013, 04:52:38 am
Another thought I want to add is that I suspect that a lot of the carved bottles that people think and claim are antique and 18th/19th century, and many that are in collections and claimed to be whatever, just are not, and were produced throughout late 19th and the 20th century with modern tools and techniques.  It is extremely dificult to prove age though provenance without reasonable doubt much earlier than the late 1800s, so I always take these ages with an extreme grain of salt.  If the bottles could only talk.  I am sure many of them would speak modern Putonghua. Personally, I am already quite happy to establish bottles as late 19th/early 20th century. I suppose that is why I like middle period inside painted bottles, signed and dated.  Regardless, to me, whether made new, recently, vintage or antique, these carved agates, jades, and other hardstones are pure works of art, and their creators deserve our utmost respect...

Richard makes a good point about the patience, in another discussion somewhere we discussed the lack of floater agates being made today, and since the 1970s. Takes just too much time and produces a lot of wasted bottles.  Think about it. If for display only, reasonably well hollowing and great carvings are enough.  I am not sure newer collectors would want to pay the premium to have a contemporary agate floater bottle.  It would be expensive.....


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: George on November 02, 2013, 04:57:50 am
  Regardless, to me, whether made new, recently, vintage or antique, these carved agates, jades, and other hardstones are pure works of art, and their creators deserve our utmost respect...

Absolutely !!


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Wattana on November 03, 2013, 07:27:04 am
Hi Richard,
   I love that last 'triple decker' you posted. Very clever use of the layers in the material, and with a sense of humour, too. The lazing horse is a gem.

George and Pat,
   I am sure there are many modern techniques for carving bottles better than the old ones, but most give themselves away by being a little too bold in showing off their skills....often in ways that a lapidary of bygone days would not. It is very difficult to put a finger on what makes one "feel" that a hardstone bottle is old or new, but, after handling many over a span of years, there is an intuitive sense. It's not infallible, but right more often than not. Having said that, I do admire the skill of the modern carvers who can produce work like that seen on Richard's triple decker.

Tom


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司 on November 03, 2013, 12:22:30 pm
Pat,
   Like George, I also agree with you. They are true artists.
Joey

Richard,
   Of course you are correct.
With modern tools the artisans are capable of work equalling or even surpassing the 18th & 19th C. wares.
But they give themselves away by 'gilding the lily' [doing things that earlier artisans would not have], and there is no wear.
I agree with Giovanni, that there will be at least slight wear, even on a hardstone like Crypto-Crystalline Quartz [Chalcedony/Agate/Carnelian].
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Snuff Bottle with the theme: May you be promoted to a Marquis
Post by: AndrewS on November 21, 2021, 08:17:40 pm
Newbie reading an old post. I enjoyed this thread on 马上封侯. Thank you.