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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
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Dragon Pillar Snuff Bottles

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Author Topic: Dragon Pillar Snuff Bottles  (Read 11427 times)
George
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« Reply #140 on: August 08, 2021, 04:15:56 pm »

Would like to share some interesting research by Charll in regards to concentric rings..

https://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,2451.msg31293.html#msg31293
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« Reply #141 on: August 09, 2021, 06:56:25 am »

Giovanni and Jo, I believe that Robert Kleiner put forth that theory during a seminar on B&W bottles in Virginia in 2000. I have the other side of the bottles in the earlier photo....John
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« Reply #142 on: August 09, 2021, 07:44:59 am »

Thank you dear John. I never heard that before.
I am not in conditions to say if all the bottles with concentric rings that I have seen are of the highest quality. Probably not, but I am not sure.
Regards,
Giovanni
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« Reply #143 on: August 13, 2021, 12:35:24 pm »

This example is a little more unusual because of it's thin diameter, 81mmx26mm.


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« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 07:59:54 pm by George » Report Spam   Logged

John O'Hara

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« Reply #144 on: September 25, 2021, 10:00:43 pm »

All, cataloging another recent acquisition.  An iron red pillar bottle. 

Iron Red Porcelain Dragon Pillar Bottle:
A cylindrical hard paste porcelain bottle with a straight neck.  Bottle depicts a continuous design of an iron red five clawed imperial dragon chasing a gold gilt flaming pearl through formalized clouds above a uniformed band of waves and sea spray.  Dragon teeth and claws are high-lighted with white enamel.  Dragon body scaling is presented as a centered dot at each vertex of a uniform cross-hatching pattern, which is a typical design employed in the 2nd half of the 19th century.  Bottle has a flat unglazed white porcelain base of nine concentric rings.  Stopper is a carnelian colored half glass bead set in a brass collar with a short brown keratin spoon.  Height is 8.2 cm without stopper by 3.0 cm in diameter. 

Period: Jingdezhen, ca. 1851-1855/1866-1874.  (Likely Tongzhi period 1862-1874).

Condition: Exceptionally fine fresh condition with no chips, cracks, or repairs, and little to no abrasion.  UV light reveals no hidden damage. 

Provenance:  Powley Oriental Arts.  Acquired from a dealer in Spain who told Mark Powley he purchased the bottle from a German collector who
                      had a written collection index card.  Card states bottle was purchased at the Dusseldorf Fair April 1975 for 400.00 Deutsche
                      Marks (roughly $163.00 USD in 1975).

Similar Reference:  Similar to bottle 21.3.1046 in the ‘The Water Pine and Stone Collection of Snuff Bottles’

Enjoy, Charll


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« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 10:19:29 am by rpfstoneman » Report Spam   Logged

Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #145 on: September 25, 2021, 11:41:24 pm »

Congratulations Charll,

This is an impressive bottle - wonderful control of brushwork and firing. Quite unusual to see the flaming pearl picked out in gold gilt.

Its size and proportions conform closely to the underglaze blue dragon pillar bottles, except perhaps for the neck.
The comparison to the example in the 'e-yazi' link is interesting, in that the latter is significantly shorter than the average dragon pillar bottle.

Thanks for sharing!

Tom 
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« Reply #146 on: September 26, 2021, 06:19:03 am »

Hi Charll

Another nice bottle!

I wonder how many 'pillars' there are now in your home?  Grin Grin

The last counter was 38 porcelain bottles you have posted including this one.

Regards.


Richard
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« Reply #147 on: September 26, 2021, 07:03:22 am »

Charll, congrats on your purchase! I believe I showed you the matching one at one of the conventions....John


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« Last Edit: September 27, 2021, 04:44:41 pm by George » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #148 on: September 26, 2021, 10:18:20 am »


John, as I recall yes you did.  Its a lovely bottle as well.  Thanks for your comments and sharing of your bottles. 

Also, do not be reluctant to give me some constructive criticism on my descriptions and write ups.  You have a very high working knowledge.  For me it is more important to get these right, and I look up to the group here to provide feedback when I'm off base or have gone astray.

Charll     
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« Reply #149 on: September 26, 2021, 07:35:36 pm »

Congratulations on another absolutely wonderful bottle Charll !

 
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« Reply #150 on: September 27, 2021, 01:50:21 am »

Very nice bottle dear Charll.
Surely Tongzhi/Guangxu period, very typical.
Congratulations.
Kind regards,
Giovanni
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« Reply #151 on: September 27, 2021, 10:13:10 am »


John, upon further inspection of the dragon features it obvious both your bottle and mine are painted using the same and/or standardized template.  Charll     
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« Reply #152 on: September 27, 2021, 11:30:43 am »

Charll, that is my feeling also....John
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« Reply #153 on: September 27, 2021, 09:38:21 pm »

Charll,

Wow, now that's a great one. Love the details in the dragon.

Brian
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« Reply #154 on: September 30, 2021, 01:31:48 pm »

It looks like a well done overglaze Iron red decorated porcelain SB.
With the quality of the scales etc., I could see it being as early as Daoguang [1821-1850]
or Xianfeng [1851-1854/1855 {When Jingdezhen was destroyed by the Taiping}],
though it could be as late as Tongzhi between 1865 {after he rebuilt Jingdezhen in 1865} and 1874.
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #155 on: September 30, 2021, 01:42:10 pm »

Dear John,

     When the late Robert Kleiner described the differences between dragon heads, he indeed spoke in 2000 at the DC convention; but I remembered that it was to explain that the style of drawing / incising dragon heads was different between early, mid-,  and later Qing; and he was referencing the fake Shunzhi bronze SBs, which were most probably ca.1870-1890 and made for the Western market.
Best,
Joey



Giovanni and Jo, I believe that Robert Kleiner put forth that theory during a seminar on B&W bottles in Virginia in 2000. I have the other side of the bottles in the earlier photo....John
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« Reply #156 on: October 01, 2021, 07:13:21 am »

Joey, thanks for the clarification....John
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« Reply #157 on: October 03, 2021, 01:48:29 am »

Dear John,

    My pleasure.
I paid particular attention, because I'd been offended when Hugh Moss publicly
mocked Prof. Schuyler Cammann, over the latter's denial that the Shunqi bronzes
were genuinely 17th C.
Prof. Cammann had argued that they were ca. 1870 - 1900, and made for
the Western market, when he gave us a lecture at the Newark Museum during
the 1982 NYC  ICSBS convention, which was held at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in NYC.
Subsequently, Hugh Moss quietly acknowledged that they were actually mid to late 19th C.
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #158 on: May 08, 2022, 10:35:38 pm »

All, this bottle is another recent acquisition.  It is a little larger in height at 10.3 cm over that you normal see (7.5 to 9.0 cm) in these dragon pillar bottles.

Blue & White Porcelain Dragon Pillar Bottle:
A large cylindrical hard paste porcelain bottle with a low stubbed neck and broad flared mouth.  Bottle depicts a continuous wrap design of a five clawed cobalt blue dragon chasing a flaming pearl on a pure white paste ground.   The dragon’s head is coiled back over the main body from left to right.  Good use of tonal contrast of dark blue on the pearl flames and back ribbing, feet, and beaded facial features of the dragon to mid blue tonal hues on the main body, and a lite blue wash to fill other areas in the design.  Dragon scales are presented as a central dot at each vertex on a uniform cross-hatching pattern, which is a typical design employed in the 2nd half of the 19th century.  Glazed bottle interior.  Bottle has a flat unglazed white porcelain base of eleven concentric rings.  Stopper is a larger banded agate tunic button carved as a traditional coiled chi long dragon set on a thin nylon collar with a brown stained bone spoon.  Height is 10.3 cm without stopper by 3.7 cm in diameter.  Bottle came with fitted rosewood stand.

Period: ca. 2nd half 19th century.

Condition: good condition with no chips, cracks, or repairs, and a little abrasion from use.  Main body has a few firing pot marks and there are several areas of scale dotting that have burned through the surface of the clear overglaze.

Provenance:     Powley Oriental Arts, San Francisco
                         Purchased from an antique dealer in Southampton, UK

If anyone has an opinion that the dating of this bottle could, or should, be placed in the early 20th century, please let me know.

Charll   


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« Last Edit: May 10, 2022, 11:31:20 am by rpfstoneman » Report Spam   Logged

Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #159 on: May 09, 2022, 04:21:46 am »

Hi Charll

Another beauty!

Congratulations!


Richare
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