More on stone bottles

[Wattana]

Hi everyone,

I only joined tis forum a few short weeks ago. I am still working my way through old posts. While I enjoy following what is going on in the market of IP bottles, my main interest and area of collecting is hardstones, and I am aware of many other collectors who have mainly stone bottles i ntheir collections.  

I noticed a thread started by Richard last year (April 2011), suggesting we showcase more of each others' stone bottles. He started it with a BANG! - a series of spectacular black & white jade bottles from his collection. Another post was started by Udonthara (a thai lady?) with russet skin jade and amethyst bottles. Then the threads died around mid last year. Not sure why.....is there not enough interest in stone bottles?

I'd like to rekindle the fire that Richard started, but don't want to necessarily resurrect a topic that may not be too popular. Is there an interest amonst members for this to be revived?

Tom (Wattana)
  

[Steven]

Hi Tom,

I personally like the stone bottle, but the stone bottles are much more difficult to be IDed than the IP bottles( at least I think so, or maybe I just don't have any experience) so I dare not to go hunt for the stone bottles,also I normally buy bottles online, that even harder for me to identify the bottle, since we can't see how the  bottles are hollowed which is an important clue for ID the stone bottle. that is why I don't have any stone bottle in my collection.

I would love to follow the topic of the stone bottle If you start a thread to talk about it, and share your experience.

Steven

[Wattana]

Hi Steven,

Thanks for your words of encouragement. Let's see how many other members are interested.

I fully understand what you are saying about dating stone bottles. I felt the same way about porcelain bottles, so stays away from them for many years. The ONLY way to gain experience is to HANDLE as many genuine old bottles as you can. Buying online from a few photos and usually poor/ inaccurate description is very risky indeed!

Tom

[George]

I am very attracted to stone bottles..

Especially Jades and Agates..

The only thing that keeps me from spending the money on them, is being on a limited collecting budget.. It is difficult enough for me to purchase my favorite bottle medium, which are the  occassional IP bottle.. Heck, I just purchased my very first porcelain bottle.. !

So, it really just comes down to the old budget..  Not to mention that like any other category of bottle, my champagne taste on a beer budget flows right on over to a category like stone bottles.. 

Especially when starting to consider the different Jades..

Tom..

Would you like me to create a stone bottle area within the this private area of the forum, or are you ok with sharing your bottles, and expertise within the public area for all to see ?

It is no trouble at all to get an area up and running within our private area here..

[rpfstoneman]

Ah, Tom, this is a Forum for all snuff bottle forms.  Share what interests you.  If you build it they will come, or at least many of us would appreciate the examples and insight.  I like hard stones, but just have not gotten around to sharing those few I have.

Charll

[Pat - 查尚杰]

I FULLY agree.  Tom, please share and enlighten us.  I have two dozen or so nice (what I consider to be, anyway), hardstones, but the bottles in this category are so hard to date and identify.  Even welll hollowed.  And i have no clue what I really have, old/not, valuable/not, rare/common.  I guess what is different about hardstone is that the age of the stone is the same for all of them.. only difference is how, when and by whom they are hollowed and carved.  And provenance for these, well, I agree it is and always wll be very important, as always, but they were still carving these in Suzhou in the early 1900s, in the same way they did 200 years before.  So, in short, very happy to learn more...

I will admit it is probably the hardest category for me to consider spending real big money on. But hey, I can be enticed...would not be and will not be the last time I change my mind about stuff.  They say only fools never change their mind... haha.... 

[Wattana]

Hi everyone,

  Thanks for all the encouraging noises.

  Here is an extract from Richard's original post, made on April 17, 2011 (yes, 15 months ago), which sums up the intent much better than I could express it:

------------------------------------

"As we know, one of the unique characteristics of collecting snuff bottles is that they come in different materials and art forms.

Therefore we would like to encourage more collectors to interact in this platform and exchange our collecting experience.

While the inside-painted bottle thread has been very active, not much discussions are going on for the other materials. I would like to get collectors of other materials to contribute as well.

To get the ball rolling, I am posting some of my jade bottles, starting with black and white jades."

Richy88

------------------------------------

  George, I am just thinking about what you suggested. The original thread posted by Richard, from which the above is taken, can be found under 'Bottle Talk' / Gem, Stone Rock and Fossil / the Story of Black & White.
  I was trying to figure out why that post died so fast. One of the reasons may be that it was on the Public Forum. Even those of us less security-minded than Joey may be slightly reticent about showing off their prize bottles publicly, where I understand spy-bots have free access. I am, for one. Therefore, yes, I would prefer to see this as a new category in the Members Only area.
  The downside is that potential new recruits browsing the Forum may get the mistaken idea that it is mainly about IP bottles. That was certainly my initial impression the first time I browsed the Forum. So, how to make it clear that ALL categories of snuff bottle are discussed and illustrated, without allowing unrestricted access to the juicy bits?

As for the original category 'Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil', it may be too general a topic. Then again 'Jade' or 'Agate' may be too narrow. So for now 'Hardstone' looks good. If the posts get overwhelming in the future (as I hope they will!) we can then sub-divide into Jade, Quartz Silica (agate, jasper, chalcedony, etc.), and Other Stones/Minerals (turquoise, malachite, aquamarine, tourmaline, and so on).  

Tom

[George]

  The downside is that potential new recruits browsing the Forum may get the mistaken idea that it is mainly about IP bottles. That was certainly my initial impression the first time I browsed the Forum. So, how to make it clear that ALL categories of snuff bottle are discussed and illustrated, without allowing unrestricted access to the juicy bits?

I think an ocassional posting to the public forum, sharing a bottle or two would is ideal for the reason you recognize..  Letting guests and new members see that we are not solely about IP's..

That is what I think a lot of us try to do.. Even with IP's and other bottle mediums..  We try to post as best we can to the public forum when and where expert and valued information for what ever reason is not an issue..

Give me a little bit here to catch up on recent postings, and will get the "hardstone" board set up within the private area.. 

[rpfstoneman]

All,

Just a suggestion, I would consider subdividing a hardstone board into categories early.  Set up a board for hardstones in the member section and/or use the exiting board in the public section.  Start by sub-divide into material threads such as jade, quartz silica (agate, jasper, chalcedony, etc.), and other stones/minerals (turquoise, malachite, aquamarine, tourmaline, fossil, and so on), just as Peter suggested in the initiating of a thread for each IPB artist.  These threads will still run out of control with other discussions, but it’s a better effort to contain subject matter. 

Example- I attempted to set a thread on the illustration and have discussions on ‘Dragon Pillar’ bottles which I dearly love and hope will continually expand, but you can see how easy it is to get off topic. 

So spread the topics out to better control the jibber-jabber.   Don’t misunderstand me here, I truly love off topic jibber-jabber for it spawns other ideas and discussions which I often find fascinating and very much appreciate.   Or maybe we just need a “Jibber-Jabber’ board? (just kidding) 

At some point in time, these subject threads may/will contain sufficient scholarly work that one can then go about an editing effort (if one has the time, inclination, and energy)  into  concise topic threads for the Forum or use in other documents.  Just my suggestion, Charll

[George]

Lets keep it simple to start with..

Created a general "hardstone" board.. As postings progress, if need be we can start breaking it up a bit..

[Wattana]

George and Charll,

I will go with the flow....so whatever you decide is good for me.

George, one thing puzzles me slightly. As you know, it was a posting from "Richy88" in April 2011 that inspired me to re-start this topic and place it in the 'members only' area. I assume "Richy88" is Richard Baer from Singapore.

I have read many threads to which he has contributed, yet when you look at the member list, he has only 3 posts attributed to him, all from over a year ago. Peter bentley is meeting him in S'pore soon, and I have asked Peter to encourage him to 're-join'. We really need his participation. His insight and expertise are matched by a spectacular collection which he started to share 15 months ago, then stopped almost immediately.  

Tom

[George]

Yes, Richy is Richard Baer..

It was puzzling to myself and other members as well, why he ceased to pariticipate here.. 

The 3 posts that were showing was misleading, and I have just now fixed that..

Also just sent him a note asking if he might consider stopping in and joining back in the fun ... Especially in regards to your shared interest in hardstone bottles. http://www.facebook.com/#!/richardbaey

[Wattana]

Thanks George; I had a sneak look at your Facebook message.....spot on! I hope it will encourage Richard to resume activity n the Forum.

Tom

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Oh, I didn't think of my Jades - I have 46 Nephrite Jades, and a green Jadeite snuff dish dredged up from the Chao Praya River (sp.?) by John Ault from the sacking of Ayuthaya (again, sp.?) in the 1700s (the sacking, not the dredging ),a gift when I visited in 1999.
Joey

[Wattana]

Nephrite is one of my favorite materials. Look forward to seeing some of them.

How come I only got plastic bottles when I dredged the Chao Praya...?

Tom

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

His Majesty, King Bhumipol, Rama IX, gave John personal permission  to dredge near the site of the sacking. Where on the river did you dredge?
Joey