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January 23, 2018, 07:44:19 am
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Laque Burgauté Snuff Bottles

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Author Topic: Laque Burgauté Snuff Bottles  (Read 5516 times)
Joey
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« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2015, 04:23:45 pm »

Dear Charll,

    Another stunning Lac Burgaute bottle. I would suggest that it is Thai, rather than Chinese or Japanese, based on the amount of reddish mother of pearl. The Chinese and Japanese examples tend to have more blue-green or white material.
   This is how the late John Ault of blessed memory, taught me to judge the origin of these bottles. He had about 12 or 15 examples from members of the Thai Royal Family (like his mother in law; her cousin, His
Majesty The King; etc.). Some of them were 'Asian' like this, without designs identifiable (to me!) as specifically Thai; but some had Thai style 'flames' or even 'Garuda'-like figural designs.
 Re.dating: ca.1850-1910
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2015, 04:33:47 pm »


Thanks Joey for the comment.  I did not consider that it could be Thai and have found no literature to date on Thai laque burgaute items.  Will need to hunt and/or dig deeper.

Charll
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George
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« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2015, 06:44:08 pm »

What an elegant shaped bottle.  At two inches, it really makes ya appreciate the detailed work..

Here is an interesting snippet from within a Antique Trader magazine  article  with a few dating clues..
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« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2015, 09:05:47 pm »

Charll

Great bottle ! Congrats .. I have a few of these which eventually will be shown . Yours is a fine example.

George

Thanks for the link. Very good stuff..

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Pat
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Steven
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« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2015, 12:39:21 am »

Wow Charll,

That is one  of the best Laque burgaute bottle I have seen. Congratulations!

Altho I have not seen any this kind of bottle contributed to chinese, never heard of Thai bottle too. I guess that I still have lot of learn.

Thank you for sharing!

Steven
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« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2015, 06:48:27 pm »

Dear Steven,
   
        I did not know about Thai snuff bottles till the late John Ault gave a lecture about them in the 1990s (I don't remember at which convention, but it was somewhere between 1990 and 1996), and I did not really believe him at first. I doubt many did.
     
        Then in 1999, I stayed with John and Penny Ault in Bangkok, and John showed me his collection. And I was 'converted' to believing in Thai snuff bottles. And then I found a superb metal example for my friends Jeremy and Amanda Levine.

       Best,
Joey
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« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2016, 07:25:51 pm »

What an informative thread about SBs made in this unique art form! It's the first time I'm learning about Thai Lac Burgaute bottles too!

I am posting mine here too. Please comment!
Charll, I really admire your knowledge of Lac Burgaute  SBs, what do you think?

Credits to Peter our forum member for helping me to get my pics to the right size and make blow-ups out of them.

P.S. It was very nice to catch up with Peter again last weekend at my home where I finally got the chance to show him my SB collection! Smiley


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« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 07:33:52 pm by samsonlzj » Report Spam   Logged

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Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2016, 07:54:36 pm »

Hi All

Samson's Laque Burgauté really  is a  beauty. I   have  seen  it  and  I was  IMPRESSED  BIG  TIME !

There  are even   beautiful inlays  on the bottle side  and the   stopper  top

I could not believe that  every  single  little  inlaid tile  of  mother-of-pearl and  gold  were  individually  made by hand  with  such perfect  regularity.  It  was  only when  we made the  blow-up  that  I  could  see  how  the inlays were  made.  Exquisite !

Goodness  knows  how  long  it  took the   artist to  make the  bottle  !

Cheers

Peter

PS:   Samson  has  a  small  but  very tasteful  collection ...  and  growing.
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« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2016, 08:57:40 pm »

Absolutely beautiful !

It looks to be a hair over two inches ?
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« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2016, 11:36:12 pm »

Dear Samson,

     A GORGEOUS bottle, and it looks to be in superb condition.
I would vote Japanese, but it could be Chinese.
I would have said ca. 1880-1930, only because of condition.  This is a very delicate material.
But Charll is much more expert than I on this subject.
Thank you for posting.

Best,
Joey
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« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2016, 12:22:37 am »

Samson,

I would agree with Joey's dating.  Here is a bottle with a different body style, but the same or at least similar, geometric design on the lower half of the bottle that was labeled to be Chinese by Skinner Auction House in 2011. 

Link: https://www.skinnerinc.com/auctions/2549B/lots/1337

Lac Burgaute Snuff Bottle, China, 19th century, the pear-shaped bottle delicately inlaid with gold and mother-of-pearl on a lacquered surface with brocade designs, domed stopper, "Qian li" mark to the base, lg. 2 3/8 in.
Estimate $200-300.  Sold for: $1,541 USD in June 2011.

Does your bottle have a base mark?

Charll


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Joey
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« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2016, 07:32:43 am »

Dear Samson,

     I'm going to modify my dating to ca.1870-1930 (ie., equally possible to be late 19th OR early 20th C.), and say it could well be Chinese,though I'm leaning towards Japanese manufacture.

    This assumption of Japanese source is simply because a lot of earlier collectors used to always describe these as Japanese. I honestly don't know why, but assume (hope?  Cheesy) they had info to that effect, possibly from the seller.

    'In the Early Days' (as Y.F. Yang always likes to preface his words of wisdom; mine aren't usually nearly as wise as his...  Embarrassed), which for me means 1970 - 1985, all the veteran collectors I met had 2 or 3 like this one, as did I myself. And we did not value them highly enough, first because we ALL had them; and second because we valued 'Chinese' over 'Japanese', instead of valuing quality as the first measurement.

    I later got a 'much better' Lacque Burgaute bottle, if only because the design incorporated a lot more reddish nacre with the bluish and the white; and because it did not have a 'horror vacui' design.

   [ In visual art, horror vacui (/ˈhɔːrər ˈvɑːkjuːaɪ/; from Latin "fear of empty space"), also kenophobia, from Greek "fear of the empty"), is the filling of the entire surface of a space or an artwork with detail.  - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]   

  I assumed my 'better' example was Chinese, but now believe that it was also Japanese.

Regardless of whether it is Chinese or Japanese, this is a beautiful example, and you should be very proud of it.

Best,
Joey
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« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2016, 07:38:19 am »

An impressive and beautiful bottle Samson.
I've never managed to find one which wasn't damaged (had pieces missing).

Congratulations!

Tom
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« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2016, 11:50:43 am »

Dear all,

Thank you for all your compliments! Like Peter said, every time I hold this bottle in my hand and appreciate it, I can't help but admire the impressive craftsmanship employed to make it. I can't imagine how intricate and painstaking it was for the craftsmen to inlay these micro haliotis shell pieces and gilts into the lac finishing. The overall appearance just looks gorgeous and elegant in my opinion. It may be a light bottle, but it surely has a substantial position in my collection, one I'll certainly treasure for many years to come, especially after hearing your comments about it! Grin

Thanks for giving your dating Joey, it's actually very close to how it was described when I acquired it, which was late 19th- early 20th century. Having your verification gives me a peace of mind! By the way, it's the first time I learn of the term "horror vacui", that's really interesting! Roll Eyes

Charll, yes, it does have a base mark. It's a leaf mark (appeared to be formed by inlaid haliotis shell as well) instead of the "Qian Li" mark on the example in your link. Does that give any implication? By the way Charll, is mother of pearl haliotis? Or they're different types of shell?

Best wishes,

Samson
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« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2016, 11:55:56 am »

Dear Samson,

     I learned the term 'horror vacui' when I studied Islamic Art at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, after I finished my compulsory service in the IDF. It is very common in Islamic art.
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2017, 04:00:30 pm »

Greetings Everyone,

I'm jumping all over the place category wise today, as I have internet and a few days off. 
Stumbled on this amazing thread, and just want to say that I love your bottle Samson, and the few of your's Charll, that are still showing, are great!  Thanks for all the great information.

I'd like to add  my grandmother's laq burgaute bottle which was purchased in 1964 in Hong Kong.  It has primarily blue and green shells, (little purple) and gold foil, and has some type of mark on the base.  In all, she said it contained 500 pieces ( I didn't count!)
It is very light, and measures 1 15/16" w/o stopper.  Appears very few pieces are missing.

As always, help with dating is always appreciated!

Cheers,

Rube.


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« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2017, 12:27:17 am »

Dear Rube,

Thanks for sharing another wonderful bottle.

This bottle appears to be from same workshop as the bottle in Skinner which Charll shared previously. they have same base mark" Qian li"" thousand miles"

https://www.skinnerinc.com/auctions/2549B/lots/1337

I am with Joey on the date 1870-1930, and tend to agree with Joey on the Japanese manufacture.

Best,

Steven
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« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2017, 02:01:00 am »

Nice bottle Rube !

I have only handled one very fine burgaute bottle, and it belonged to Charll..
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« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2017, 03:35:01 am »

Dear Rube,

    What a beautiful design! It is a great example of the type, and I stick by my Japanese source and 1870-1930 dating. I believe these were made for the Chinese market originally. All my Lacque Burgaute bottles (I had 3, in total; 2 with an allover design, and one with a floral design) had the same 'qian li' mark; though I must confess that, till Steven translated it, I did not realise it was "thousand miles"; and I studied Chinese and learned to read it, 1979 - 1981! At that time, I still had the bottles. I wonder now why I didn't think to try and translate such simple characters. And I know I'd learned both in class. But I never connected the marks on the bottle to the 'book knowledge'. Possibly because I thought they were Japanese, and didn't at that time realise that the old Japanese characters are identical to classical Chinese characters.

    Although I think that at least the two examples like yours in design, were out of my collection and bunged into Sotheby's London in Nov. 1980. I'd weeded out 34 bottles then, and flew them to London. The late Robert Kleiner, then at Sotheby's London, took one enameled molded porcelain, and put it into Sotheby's London's sale of May 1981; 2 lots of 16 bottles each, which ended up in a sale in Torquay in Apr.1981; and one 1950s-1960s Lapis Lazuli bottle, a double gourd shape with matching stopper, which he valued at US$30.

     I returned with it to Israel, since my late mom had admired it, and worked with her personal jeweler and our family friend, the late Kevork Pannikian of blessed memory, to design an 18K gold frame to hold the bottle, suspended from a matching necklace. I gave it to my mom for Passover 1981. Kevork had been a prominent member of the Armenian community in Jerusalem.

    Best,
Joey
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« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2017, 08:03:46 am »

Steven,

Thanks for the help with dating this bottle.   And the translation of the mark.  Per Samson's earlier question, what is the significance  of the leaf mark on so many of these bottles that I see?

Joey,  what a great idea to make a necklace for your late mother, I bet it was stunning!

Personally, I tend to love Japanese artwork and craftsmanship of all kinds, and pertaining to snuff bottles, am kind of glad that they typically don't garner as much praise in the eyes of most collectors, because they're not Chinese.  Better chances at better prices.

Cheers,

Rube.
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