1) Cleaning of Inside Painted Snuff Bottles

[Pat - 查尚杰]

Contrary to the generally held belief that Inside Painted snuff bottles were primarily an art form and not intended for use, a fair number of the IP bottles in my collection were actually used to contain snuff based on remaining contents, traces, scratch marks, remainder of poor cleaning practices by prior owners (i.e water traces   ).

I have tried to identify some source or practice to clean the bottles in some fashion, without affecting the (mostly) watercolor paint or just plain ink used in them.  Does anyone have any idea? 

[George]

Not a clue..

In my humble opinion, bottles like that are like antiques with a good petina.. 

I have a bottle with snuff stuck to the sides.. It crossed my mind to shake a little water around in it.. The thought did not last long..

I can't imagine there being any kind of chemical that a guy would want to come in contact with the inside paintings..


 

[Pat - 查尚杰]

I agree on the patina remark/reaction but sometimes it interferes with the wrong things like dates/signatures/seals.  Thinking of that, this brings up a funny story (but not funny for the guy at all... ) of a street vendor who tried to 'help' me when i was trying to identify the calligraphy on the inside of a bottle due to caked on snuff.  He pulled the bottle out of my hand and just dissappeared for a minute or 3-4.  When he came back he was shaking the bottle and I was perplexed and shocked to see he had filled it with liquid and some other unknown substance ... ofcourse ... the paint was affected and it DID clean the bottle .. but it was stripped 

When questioned on it by my girlfriend, he answered he did this 'all the time', mixed water with cigarette ashes to clean them ... OUCH.... NOT a practice to be repeated.  The bottle which I was so interested in had been destroyed.  I have several nice bottles, some even rock crystal that have been destroyed by similar practices.  This is an absolute no-no and not be to be tried in any circumstances. 

[Lotus Flower]

I have tried use Q-Tips with varying success. They can remove some remnants of snuff, but they tend to leave white fluff behind. As this is an old topic, does anyone have any newer suggestions?

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Pat,
   Originally, inside painted snuff bottles were indeed meant to be used. Most (though not all) early snuff bottles I've seen, have staining pand scratches from snuff and use. I have a superb Chen Quan, dated 1830, in mint condition (C-1 in "Worlds").
   However, relatively quickly, the medium went from vessel to art form. Just as the fan-shaped album leaves (from my collection of Chinese paintings from late Ming to PRC) could be glued onto the ribs of a fan, but were mounted in an album.

  Re.cleaning: I use a q-tip to very gently rub the snuff off. YF Yang told me to look at the staining as if it is imitating a painting on old silk, and accept it. But where it blocks view of the inscription, or is particularly distractive to the appreciation of the painting, I do try to help it along a bit.
  Joey

[George]

I guess this is as good a time as any to take my spanking from the gang for a cleaning I did on this ZLY ..

During an attempt to get this listed with Bonhams, for what ever reason, they were not interested in the crizzling.. They were not interested in listing it because of the poor quality of the painting..

Also made an attempt to list it on eBay.. Not much interest, so did not let it finish the auction.

I guess it is just me. I can not get past finding value in that the crizzleing dates the glass to as early as late 18th century..

So call it a combination of being discouraged that nobody seemed to either see past the poor quality of the painting and find value in the age of the glass, and or yes.., the very poor ( although signed/dated ) painting, I decided to try and remove the painting completely..

One thing I noticed was even the slightest touch with a Q-tip to the signature/date and seal, they just flaked right off.. Way to easily..  As compared to the painting which I could not even completely remove..

I ended up getting pretty agressive with a Q-tip.. Because the glass is crizzled, the paint is really imbedded into the glass.. 

My thinking was to remove the painting and in turn place emphasis on the age of the glass itself for any future attempt of selling it. 

Ok..  I am ready for my spanking now, should anyone feel the urge to do so ! 





 

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

***t happens, George. I would have thought you'd beaten yourself up enough on it. Incidentally, you might as well clean it out fully now, and then sell it as a genuine crizzled 18th C. glass snuff bottle, which is what it is.
Joey

[George]

Thanks Joey ..

Say.. I tried a good soap and water scrub, as well as acetone to try and remove it completely..  The paint is really worked into the crizzling of the glass.. I am out of ideas on how to completely remove it..

Not to mention that I am taking risk even using water on crizzled glass.. I read how it is a real bad idea to get these wet, humid enviroment, or significat temprature changes as it can potentially cause it to fall to pieces much earlier.. Similar to some recently talked about crizzled museum pieces I read about online.. They are crumbling on the shelves !

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Have you tried something that would grind away the paint?
Joey

[George]

No I have not..

Good idea.. Will think of some kind of abrasive to use.. Maybe even same process as used to rough up the inside prior to painting..

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Good luck. Joey

[Pat - 查尚杰]

George

I personally would not mess around too much with crizzled glass.. it has a shorter life span.  There is a fair chance you may not be able to remove the remaining paint traces before you wind up destroying the bottle.  If you are at a point where you dont care and rather see the bottle clean, then try with paint thinner at the ambient room temperature of the bottle and let it sit for a day or two.   Then, use the q-tip while the thinner is still in the glass to remove the remaining traces.   This is what I did with one of my old rock crystal bottles that had traces I could not clean out. 

 

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

George,
   Pat's idea sounds a lot smarter, on reflection, than my suggestion to use an abrasive.
Joey

[George]

Ok.. Sounds good to me, and will do.. 

[fresca]

Hmmmmm after reading this string I think I will leave my residue alone...scary.  What do you suggest is the safest method of cleaning the exterior of the glass bottles?

Gina

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Put a piece of tape over the mouth, and scrub it carefully with dish soap. Rinse. the tape is so water won't get inside.
Joey