Enamel On Glass

[George]

This is my first example of a bottle like this..

I was pleasantly surprised how nice it looks in person, as well it is a nice hefty bottle.

2 3/4 "

Although the floral emblem on this bottle is not similar, the bright yellow and other colors reminds me of the article in the current ( Spring ) ICSBS journal.. "Auspicious Emblems": Connections between Qing Dynasy Snuff Bottles and An Imperial Chinese Robes..

[Steven]

Hi George,

Nice bottle, a great example of the enamel on glass.

I will vote modern from the color, and an antique Gu yue xuan mark shoukd be better written than that.

Steven

[George]

Thank you Steven, and yes.. Modern for sure.. 

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

George, You are right about the connection between the enamelled wares and the robes; they are all part of the same design and cultural 'world'. Steven is right about the piece being modern.
  Clare Chu (then, Clare Lawrence) wrote an article on the different shades of Imperial Yellow, after she'd given a lecture on the subject. It seems that each Emperor during the Qing dynasty, chose his personal favourite shade of yellow, when he became Emperor. For his reign, his choice was the Official Imperial Yellow. Clare's thesis was, if we could get an exact representation of each Emperor's personal shade, and compare them to examples on snuff bottles, we could attribute examples to the different reigns. A great idea, but unfortunately, a dear friend who was a bit over-eager (and THANK G-D, it wasn't me!), accidentally reproduced the same colour slide nine times! Clare tried to explain the differences during the lecture, and her assistant and I both saw immediately, that the slides were all the same! But she succeeded in convincing most of the audience that they were each different shades! She couldn't see the screen, and was sure she had the correct shades of Imperial Yellow up on the screen. We howled with laughter (I almost pissed in my pants and was crying, I was laughing so hard!) in her suite afterward. Poor Clare was mortified but got over it; so did the accidental culprit, who shall remain nameless.
 I think the article is in the Journal.
Shabbat Shalom, Joey

[Wattana]

Another old post that I have not read before.

George, I take it that you purchased this bottle as 'modern', so did not pay over much for it. I have seen quite a few of this type in Bangkok over the last 5-6 years. They are very well executed, if a little 'bright' in colouration. I have bought a couple of the more pleasing ones myself, as I will never be able to afford the genuine article.

I don't generally like discussing prices, but am just curious to know what kind of price you paid for it. In Bangkok they go for between US$30-150, depending on quality. But I have seen several turn up in minor US auctions recently, going for US$400-600. The below link is to an upcoming Doyles NY sale, in which lists a similar bottle "with slight wear" at $3,000-5,000!

 http://www.doylenewyork.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=12AS02+++159+&refno=++892852

As far as I know, there are only four price categories for this type of bottle:

(1) Genuine Qianlong period, which command six-figure prices
(2) Copies by the Ye family (father and sons) done in the 1930-1950 period, which now go for five-figure prices
(3) A few examples painted by Wang Xisan in the 1960's before he turned to IP bottles, which now also hover at the low end of the five-figure mark
(4) Modern copies, which have a market value of $30-150

I don't see where bottles selling in the range $400 to $5,000 fit into the picture.

Would love to hear other members' views on this.

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Tom,
  I agree with everything you wrote, with two small corrections:
1. If 'six figures' means up to US$999,999.00, then the top level go up to low 7 figures, today (at least 2 or 3 from the Bloch Collection have hit over a million US$).
2. '1960s' needs no possessive apostrophe; it is a simple plural (ie., 'Joey's' = belonging to Joey; 'Joeys' = a number of baby kangaroos ).
from one Joey

[George]

I don't racall exactly, but pretty sure it was 20.00.

Like yourself, I have seen many of these for sale..

It was only after reading the Auspicious Emblems ICSBS article, leading me to appreciate the pattern and the connection to Imperial Chinese robes that I purchased one ..

[Wattana]

Thanks Joey,

I couldn't remember the Bloch hammer prices off-hand . I had in my mind a round figure of HK$5M, which is less than US$1M, but 2 or 3 bottles did indeed exceed that.

I love your kangaroo grammar lesson! You are quite correct. However, I have always placed an apostrophe on plurals of numbers and individual letters, as my teacher taught us, "for reading clarity rather than grammatical consistency". Hence I would write:

- I lived in London during the swinging 60's. (although I would write it in words as sixties, and never sixty's)

- His grades were good - all A's and B's. (omitting the apostrophe leads to confusion, especially with letters A, I and U)

I hope that makes my stance on this clear!




 

[Wattana]

George,

You did well if you got your bottle for $20. It is very nicely painted. Here is one of mine - not as delicately painted as yours on the laterals, and with a Qianlong reign mark. Height w/o stopper: 5.3 cm

Tom

[Steven]

Hi Tom,

I always want to have a good example of modern Enamel On Glass since I will never be able to afford a Genuine one.

the one you posted looks old, but I think its questionable, there is some wear on the bottle, but it looks not naturally( I mean it could be worn out intentionally to make it looked old, the wear is not evenly on the bottle, only on certain sopts, also the enamel looks a little bit flat to me).

I have been watching another one, beautifully painted, but obviously modern, not sure the price range for this kind of bottle, don't want to overpay it.

Any advise?

Steven

[Wattana]

Hi Steven,

When you say the one I posted "looks old", I guess you mean the Doyles Auction one in the web-link I gave, because mine is totally modern, bought in Bangkok in 2006 for around US$80.

I agree, the wear does not look natural. As you say, it is only in a few spots. I suspect it has been worn intentionally to fool someone into thinking it is old. Like I said, the price is wrong. If genuine old, it should be valued much, much higher. If modern, it is way too expensive.

The one you just posted looks very attractive. It is clearly modern, and not trying to be a clever copy. The landscape scene is nicely painted in a fluid style reminiscent of Daoguang enamels, while the formalized motifs at neck, foot and lateral sides are all borrowed from Qianlong. But I would not worry too much about that.

You should not be paying over US$100-150 for this bottle. 

[Wattana]

Sorry Steven,

When I looked again, there are no lateral sides! Please ignore that part. 

[Steven]

Thanks Tom,

You are right, I was refering the one on Doyles Auction.

I think your estimate on the bottle is perfectly right, I would think $100.00 will fit my budget.

also I was bidding one this one, but lost:(, always regret about it, can you make the date of this one?

Thanks!

 

[Steven]

I was told the paler color the later bottle, so it could not be Qianglong period, could it be republic period?

[Wattana]

Steven,

It's hard to make out the mark on the base. Is it a seal script Qianlong reign mark? Never mind - whatever it is, I would ignore it. The painting and the composition look like the 'transitional' period - not old, and not modern.

The style is simple and natural, and using a very limited color palette. My gut feeling is that it was probably done soon after the Beijing 'modern' school was set up by the communist government to revive the arts in the late 1950's. But I could be wrong.

Tom

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Tom,
  You are probably correct re. post 1950s for the pale one, but it could be ca.1900-1930 as well.
Joey

[Steven]

Thanks Tom and Joey!!