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Is There A Clue To Be Had Here ?

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George
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« on: April 13, 2012, 07:25:47 pm »

Maybe it is just my own observations..

Curious about this completely different style of widely flared carved throats.

I notice this on many Early Period, and earlier Middle Period bottles.

Perhaps, when in doubt about determining fake bottles, this might be a clue we can use ?

I wonder what the reason may have been for shaping like this ?  There is a certain amount of good air tight sealing lost as compared to being shaped straight where the glass can make contact the full length of the cork.





« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 07:17:18 pm by Bottle Guy » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2012, 03:43:24 pm »

George,
   You never cease to amaze me with your observations, which are either coming from your lapidary knowledge or plain common sense. I looked at the bottle neck and thought, "what the heck is he on about! both necks are straight."
Then I looked on the INSIDE of the neck, and understood what you were asking about. 
   I would connect it to the hollowing out of the bottle, using a straight drill, and hollowing out the bottle by drilling multiple 'shafts' forming a fan pattern. A blown glass bottle wouldn't have the problem. A quartz bottle, or a solid glass blank needing hollowing, would. It's almost midnight here; tomorrow, I'll look at ALL my bottles and take a count of how many have the reverse funnel shape inside the neck.
  Great question!
  Joey
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2015, 12:19:32 am »

Dear George,

     Since I did not write again, I must have forgotten. I am just going to start my morning prayers, but I will check that 'reverse funnel' thing right after.
Best to all for Hanuka and the new Lunar month of Tevet,
Joey
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2015, 01:01:57 am »

Agree. Brilliant observation George!
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2015, 08:19:03 am »

I just looked at my Early Period and Middle Period bottles, all 175 of them.
Those with 'reverse funnel' interior necks comprise less than 10%, more like 5%.
Some are glass and some are quartz. I have been able to find neither rhyme nor reason.
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2015, 08:24:50 am »

Well.. It sounded good while it lasted. I also looked at a few dozen and there doesn't seem to be any correlation. By the way Joey in another bread you said you were going to look at the Zhang Baotian calligraphy. Did you have a chance to look ? Thanks ! I just realized I have no Zhang in my collection ...
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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2015, 08:45:40 am »

Thank you both Joey and Pat..

That clears that up !
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« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2015, 12:38:01 pm »

Dear Pat,

    I'm sorry, I have forgotten which thread that was in.
    I have 7 bottles by Zhang Baotian (the latest I bought at the convention in Chicago in late Oct.), and will be happy to compare them after my return from Paris on Thursday - I have an early morning flight tomorrow and am off to bed in 15 min.
    Please send me a link, as a reminder.
Thank you,
Joey



Well.. It sounded good while it lasted. I also looked at a few dozen and there doesn't seem to be any correlation. By the way Joey in another bread you said you were going to look at the Zhang Baotian calligraphy. Did you have a chance to look ? Thanks ! I just realized I have no Zhang in my collection ...
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2016, 02:10:57 am »

Just to share... An unusual style of throat.. At least I have never seen this before..
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/a-chinese-glass-snuff-bottle-127-c-3de43139dc



* throat.jpg (31.53 KB, 373x592 - viewed 36 times.)

* throat1.jpg (18.58 KB, 369x432 - viewed 32 times.)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 02:13:02 am by George » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2016, 03:15:56 am »

Dear George,
it is matter of image distortion, due to two factors, being the more relevant one the “lens” like effect of the glass in that area and the second one the fact that the picture has been taken with the camera too much close to the bottle. The image has to go through a great difference of glass thickness between the shoulder area and the neck and body area, hence introducing distortion due to the lens effect. This is very enhanced by the fact that the camera was too much close. If you look at the first picture below, it is evident that the camera was very close, see how the height of the two sides of the bottle is greatly different; the closer side is much higher than the fastest one. And in the second picture you can see the real shape of the seal. Note that it too is distorted when see through the bottle (your first picture).
Kind regards
Giovanni


* H19653-L99183455.jpg (21.96 KB, 750x725 - viewed 29 times.)

* H19653-L99183401.jpg (20.94 KB, 750x732 - viewed 30 times.)
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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2016, 03:26:43 am »

Sounds good, and makes sense to me Giovanni !

Thank you  Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2016, 06:52:07 am »

Yes, Giovanni is quite correct.

Distortions aside, that's a beautiful bottle! It is clearly created out of a solid chunk of glass, as though it was natural quartz.
Here is a link to a citrine bottle of the same shape, hollowing and mouth profile:

http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,1842.0/msg,24046.html

Note that the distortion on the citrine bottle is different for two reasons - (1) my camera is further away from the bottle, and (2) natural quartz has a slightly different refraction value than glass.

Tom
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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2016, 10:00:34 am »

Surprised I did not pick up on that with your bottle as well Tom, but even more surprised I did not take a closer look at a quartz bottle I have that sure enough, shows the same distortion..


* throat2.jpg (118.15 KB, 455x490 - viewed 30 times.)
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