Xue Chengcai

[George]

Of the bottles that are listed on eBay, am having second thoughts about parting with this Xue Chengcai

Only one of the two bottles below included a date of 1972 which fits Pats post 1950's dating.

Interesting that they are all this yellow glass..

Any way, just wanted to share a couple bottles..

Mine...



A couple of online examples.

This one dated 1972



This one was sold along with a "run of the mill" cloisonne for 650.00

[Steven]

Hi George,

I actually like yours best, painting is kind of rough, but very vivid, you can feel the kids are really having fun there.

Don't like the second one at all.

The third one is very interesting one inscript can be read" piao mu fan chang" which means "the lady who washing clothes got paid back"( sorry, maybe Walter can translate better

Which is from a story that the poor young man was so poor and cant afford to buy any food, one day he met the lady which makes living by washing clothes for other people, the lady was so kind to gave the poor guy some food, from that time on, once the young man feel hungry but don't have a penny, he will ask the lady for more food, and he will say if I become rich one day ,I will pay everything back to you, but the lady says that you can't even afford your food, how can you pay me back.
A few years later, and guy really became very rich and came back to look for the lady who save his life, and did pay back the lady..

My dad used to have a vase painted with the scene, and the story was told by him..

Steven

[George]

Ya know... , as I was taking a real close look at mine this evening, I could not help but notice the exact same thing.. It really does show the kids having a lot of fun

I don't care for the second one either..

Thanks also for sharing that story for the third one Steven ! 

[Steven]

Hi George,

That bottle did well on the ebay:). can I ask where are most of buyers come from? I mean for those IPs you list on ebay?

Steven

[George]

All but one are headed to Thailand..

Yes, it did do well..

[Steven]

Thanks! Glad to know! don't know there are also many IP collectors in Thailand

[Pat - 查尚杰]

The first Xue Chen Chai bottle is 1922 in my view... (now that I have the bottle in my collection).  We had a long long discussion here somewhere (Steven and i disagreed for a while). Xue Chen Chai is the son of Xue Shao Fu.  So considering I have 2 Xue Shao Fu from 189x/190x, this fits.

[Tom B.]

Dear Pat and all,

The date on your Xue Chengcai IPSB is Ren Zi, so 1912 would be the probable date.  Before everyone starts doubting that early date, I will add my Xue Chengcai IPSB to the thread. Unfortunately not dated but surely a Middle Period IPSB circa 1920 +/- 10 years.















  













What are your opinions on the date of this bottle?

Best regards,

Tom B.

[Steven]

congratulations! Tom B!

One of  the great example of Xue chengcai, I can see the influence of the Ye family on this bottle, altho the subject is still his father Xue shaofu's traditional subject.

I will vote your dating is about right.

Steven

[Tom B.]

Thanks Steven, would you please translate the additional texts for me?

Best regards,

Tom B.

[Steven]

The front side' painted by Xue chengcai in Jingshi'

The reversed side'仲穆听泉' zhong mu ting quan, 仲穆 should be a Yuan period painter 赵雍(1289—1361)'s artname,

仲穆听泉  means Zhong mu is listening the sound of the spring.

Steven

[Pat - 查尚杰]

Wonderful bottle Tom! And thanks for clarifying the date on mine.  Xue Chengchai painted earlier than I thought, which would place his father in the timeframe that Zhou Le Yuan painted which makes this even more interesting.  I thought Zhou and Ye Zhong San were the earliest IPB painters in middle period. 

Anyone have more in input into this?

[rpfstoneman]

Tom B.

OK, you know have caught my attention here and I have to ask.  Based on the photos only, it appears that the painting is fired enamels.  Is the painting on the inside or outside of the bottle?  I’m assuming the inside.  We’ve had a discussion elsewhere on the Forum about fire enameled interior painted bottles, and I’ve just read in the last two weeks that this was for a while by a few artists.  Is this one of those examples?  From the photos I see what appears to be fire cracked enamel where the paint is thicker and there appears to be no defined brush strokes.  Also, the colors are very vivid which I would effect from enamels.

Charll

[George]

Wonderful bottle Tom !

[Tom B.]

Thank you Steven,

It is always nice to have more information about my SB's.  I think that this must be inspiered by a famous painting, since U have a porcelain plaque with a similar scene:








Thanks Pat,

I forgot to say that I really like your Xue Chengcai IPSB too.  It has such a different interpretation of the 'children at play' theme from the more usual Ye family type.  Clearly an original compostion by this artist. It is no wonder the price for good IPSB's is going through the roof; how else can you have so many wonderful paintings under one roof.

Best regards,

Tom B.

[Pat - 查尚杰]

Charll

You may be onto something important here, ... I just examined my bottle and it seems it has similar characteristics. This is why I wrongfully thought Xue Chen Chai painted much later (the somewhat heated interchange elsewhere with Steven... ).  AND it also explains that in CIPMA Wang Xisan states that enameled and baked inside painting was invented in the Shandong school very early on (under Xue Jingwan entry).  There are several references that indicate it was NOT the Ye brothers who experimented with this first.

[Steven]

Hi Tom B,

Nice plaque! The motif looks similar but its different.

The motif on your plaque is the picture of washing inkstone. the subject on your IP is the picture of listening the spring.

-Pat,

I personally think the Xue chengcai bottle is just a normal inside painting bottle, the enamel painting is much thicker in my opinion, we barely can see the strokes overlapped on enamel painting, but you can see it very well on the Xue chengcai bottle. then you look inside bottle, if you see the painting is evenly flat, then its normal IP, if you can see the convexities and concavities clearly, then it could be enamel painting.

Let us know what you can see.

Steven

[Pat - 查尚杰]

Hm....

With only these examples to look at and examining mine, you could be right about the enameling part, but what I can tell you is that there are fewer than normal brush strokes in the color filled in areas, which at least would indicate that it was not done by a bamboo pen, but with another tool or device.  I am not sure....

You do have to admit that the texture and colors of these 2 are so different from other IP of that period.  Could it be oil paint like used on normal paintings?

[Tom B.]

Based on the photos only, it appears that the painting is fired enamels.  Is the painting on the inside or outside of the bottle?  I’m assuming the inside.  We’ve had a discussion elsewhere on the Forum about fire enameled interior painted bottles, and I’ve just read in the last two weeks that this was for a while by a few artists.  Is this one of those examples?  From the photos I see what appears to be fire cracked enamel where the paint is thicker and there appears to be no defined brush strokes.  Also, the colors are very vivid which I would effect from enamels.

Charll

Dear Charll,

Thank you for your question; it made me become more intimate with this bottle.   Yes this is all inside painting with watercolors using a bent bamboo splinter. I examined the complete bottle with my 10X loupe and there are no signs of anything other than watercolors.

With my poor photography skills I can see why you might get the impression that there are "fire cracked enamels", but no there aren't any.   I am guessing that the offending area is the Gu Qin (zither) to the left of the feet of the two scholars.  I made a few images to show that the artist made a multitude of dark green dots and then put a wash of light green over (behind) them:


     














This bottle was very well and the surface tends to distort the finer details, so that only small areas can be focused at a time. There are even some fairly deep scratches on the surface that actually cast a shadow on the red due to using the flash on my camera.  Hope this clears up any doubts you may have, but in case you need additional images let me know.

Best regards,

Tom B.
                  

[Steven]

Hm....

With only these examples to look at and examining mine, you could be right about the enameling part, but what I can tell you is that there are fewer than normal brush strokes in the color filled in areas, which at least would indicate that it was not done by a bamboo pen, but with another tool or device.  I am not sure....

You do have to admit that the texture and colors of these 2 are so different from other IP of that period.  Could it be oil paint like used on normal paintings?

Sorry Pat,

It can't be oil painting since the oil painting won't stick on glass well, even now, the artists can't painting oil painting in glass bottle. if the painting inside looks flat, also indicate it can't be oil painting.

There is a quite few techniques mentioned on the Yan shijia's article written by Wang Guanyu, the different techniques used, then brush strokes will be  looked different, some oil like looking on this bottle might because the snuff used which contain the oil inside, remember Giovanni's 8 horse bottle we discussed?

Steven