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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
March 28, 2024, 03:30:39 pm
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Two views of a Carp bottle

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noynoy
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« on: March 24, 2012, 11:50:47 am »

Hi all:

I love this bottle.  The carp has so much personality.  I would appreciate any insights as to age, region and etc.

Thanks!

Noynoy


* copalt_carp.jpg (153.94 KB, 1150x778 - viewed 35 times.)
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Steven
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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2012, 12:05:10 pm »

That is a pretty bottle!

But I will still vote for 70s-80s or even a little later, which could be made in shangdong province of China around that period.

I hope that helps.

Steven
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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2012, 12:20:46 pm »

I agree with Steven on this one too NoyNoy..
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noynoy
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« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2012, 12:38:14 pm »

Thanks for the info. When you say 70-80s you mean 1970s... correct?

Smiley

It would be nice to have found a hoard! But I'm still very delighted by the colors, shapes and subjects.  I'll post the others too.

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« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2012, 03:28:08 pm »

When you say 70-80s you mean 1970s... correct?




Yes...  Smiley
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 05:13:30 pm »

Dear Noynoy, 
    I agree that it is a pretty bottle, and I love gefilte fish on the hoof, but I'd date it 1980s-2000.
Best, joey
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noynoy
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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2012, 08:24:58 am »

Thanks Joey: Nice turn of a phrase there!

I truly appreciate receiving the benefit of such knowledgeable opinions, my little hoard set me back a total of $40-50. and I enjoy them as lovely objects.  For the sake of completeness I will post the others here too:
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« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2012, 05:03:49 pm »

It's fun to see other people's treasures; and for the price you paid, you got a nice group of decorative Chinese art objects, or to use the technical term, tchotchkes. ;-)
Joey
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« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2012, 06:02:22 pm »

Thanks Joey: Nice turn of a phrase there!

 I enjoy them as lovely objects.  For the sake of completeness I will post the others here too:

It really is a pretty little bottle.. 

The more you enjoy these, the more likely the collectors bug will bite you !   These few could multiply like bunny rabbits !
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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2012, 06:29:59 pm »

By the way, Noynoy,
  So you'll know the symbolism of carp or goldfish in Chinese culture:
  Fish swimming freely, remind educated Chinese or those educated in Chinese culture, of the conversation between Zhuangzi (the Daoist scholar and writer of the late Zhou dynasty Daoist text named after him) and Huizi, a Confucian scholar, as they strolled along a river. They discuss whether one can understand the mind of a fish; Zhuangzi wins the argument, by comparing their enjoyment of their stroll with the enjoyment of fish swimming freely.
 The word  goldfish (zhinyu in one intonation in Chinese) is similar to gold & jade (zhinyu in a different intonation in Chinese), so it forms a wish fulfillment rebus.
 There are layers and layers to understanding Chinese art, and it is facinating; or not. ;-)
Joey
  
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2012, 10:37:03 pm »

By the way Noynoy..

I don't think any of us pointed out for you that this is an "overlay" type glass bottle.

The clear glass body was dipped in the blue colored glass, then carved down to the clear body resulting in the carp..

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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2012, 10:54:48 pm »

Seems like everyone has contributed something here.  So I will try to add just a little more.  Wink

The fish is not a carp.  In Chinese crap is considered a lucky fish, so its sharp is quite standardized: it must have 2 tentacles, and it has to have thick lips.  As you can see, the fish on the bottle has neither features.

It is likely a goldfish (with typically big tail fin).  Anyway it is a pretty bottle although I find the use of the blue color a little strange.  Actually a sign that it is modern as other has observed.  (Older overlay bottles are typically red/pink, but seldom blue)

Joey, your little description of the Taoist philosophy was most interesting.   Someday we should have some more in-depth discussion.  In the "Pub" perhaps?  Cheesy
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« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2012, 04:28:59 am »

    I hope I've not offended any Daoists with my simplified explanation of the story in the Zhuangzi! ;-)
Walter, I'd love to discuss Daoism at greater length and depth.
   I've understood it as a philosophy which supports the idea of 'going with the natural flow of life'; that is SO opposite to Judaism, as it is to Confucianism. I've often thought that Confucius was a rabbi who somehow arrived in China! When one reads statements attributed to him, they sound like they came from 'Pirkei Avot', "The Ethics of the Fathers" (A Jewish book, written over 1800 years ago, read in chapters on Sabbath (Saturday) afternoons from after Passover (6-13.April this year) till before Jewish New Year (16.Sept. this year)).
  Best, Joey
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