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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
December 10, 2018, 05:39:25 pm
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Does Anyone Recognize These VMIPB Artists?

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Author Topic: Does Anyone Recognize These VMIPB Artists?  (Read 1894 times)
rpfstoneman
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« on: February 08, 2012, 12:33:12 am »

Just got Peterís database yesterday and have cross referenced Peterís documented artists with my list of IPBs.  On an initial search, the following IP artists in my collection do not show up. Does anyone recognize these VMIPB artist names?  Are these pen names of documented artists?  I have no other reference source to get any background on these artists as given to me.  Many of the bottles came from David Osborne and have a typical tag in the box with the artist name and date. This may be just a question to Peter.

Artist Name as Given to Charll [artist name(Affiliation)]
Ai Yan (Three Rings Art Co)
An Xu Min (Xisan)
Chau San (?)
Kang Xian Feng (Xisan)
Kong Shu Jing (Xisan)
Li Guyue (?)
Liu Qing Yue (Xisan)
Ren Yan Chao (Xisan)
Shi Qing (Independent)
Shi Yiao Fang (Xisan)
Shi Yin Ying (Xisan)
Wang Li (Independent)
Wang Li Ming (Xisan)
Wang Li Yun (Xisan)
Wang Meng Meng (Xisan)
Wang Ming (Independent)
Wei Jian Chao (Xisan)
Wei Nan Nan (Xisan)
Xu Ping (Xisan)
Yan Qing (Independent)
Yi Ru (Independent)
Zhao Li Jun (Xisan)

Thanks for any and all insight.  Charll   

« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 11:09:57 pm by rpfstoneman » Report Spam   Logged

Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2012, 01:05:47 am »

Charll

Please do a search on my names (in Joey's thread about his names).  Some of yours are in mine too.  I recognize 6-8, I think.  Dont have the time to look now, will do so later!

Pat
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Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2012, 06:14:11 am »

Hi  Charll

Glad  you   got the  DB  at  last. Hope  you   find  it   useful .   Smiley

Version   II  DB   will  come  out  in  late   2012  / early  2013  and  it  will  have   at least  2  x  the    number of  pics  and  will  be  16GB

Please  return the  USB stick  in the   fullness of  time  - if  possible  with  pics  ( even    badly  taken  pics)  of  your  collection  on it   so I  can  upload    to  V  II  (  with   due  credit  to  you   for  your  bottle  pics  , if  you so  wish  - some   collectors  prefer to  remain  anonymous)

Re  the    artists  you  mention  who  are  not  in my  DB   , David  Osborne's  name  is  the  key .

I only   recently   got  to  know David Osborne, but  I  can  say  is   that  -  IMHO -   he  is   GREAT  GUY .   He  was/  is  a   real  pioneer  in  promoting  Hengshui  /  WXS   junior   artists   from the  early   2000's  via  his  Snuff Bottle  Club.  His   auction  system  is  unique  (  "winner  only  pays  $0.5  more  than   2nd  highest bidder" )    Now, it  seems, David  is   closing down  his   residual   collection and  selling  off  his  best    remaining pieces: some  by  really  top  class   VMIPB artists   like  Suo Jing and    Suo  Zhen Hai .  I have  bought   a  dozen   superb  bottles  from David  this  past  year  - all  at   very  fair  prices  ( indeed  -  far  below    market  prices  because  no-one  bid  higher  than  me  for the  bottles  I   went  for : I  focussed  only  on  my preferred    theme  of  Chinese   landscapes , with a  very  few  exceptions,  in order  not to   "spoil  the   field"   for  other  collectors  of  other  themes) 

DAVID  :  if  you  are  reading this  I  have  in ANY way   mis-represented  you, please  forgive  me  and  post  a  correction.
I think  you  have  really  done  a great  service to  the    VMIPB  field  in the  past   10  years  , and  my  regret  is that  I  did  not   discover  your    website  much  sooner




CHARLL :   Back to  your  'UFO'  Bottles  ...

As I  understand  it,  David   bought  a lot  of  bottles  by  junior  WXS  students in the     early/ mid   2000's .  Most of these   students  never  went  on  to  "greater  fame"  so  they came  and  went ,  although  they  painted   superb  bottles  in their  brief    few   of  years  of  glory.  I myself  have  several  bottles    that  I  bought  in WXS's   Hengshui  Museum/  Shop  by artists  of  whom  I have  never  heard   again.     So,  to  put  it  bluntly ,  there  are   many  "flash  in  a  pan"  VMIPB  artists  these  days.

Therefore  I  guess that  most  of the     artists   you  list  below  were  in that  category -    almost certainly  if  they  were  bought  via  David.    With   due    deference   (and  reverence)   to  Bill, I see  a    small number  of  artists  listed  in his   website as  " flash  in the  pan"    students  of  some  masters  in Hengshui .  That's   my only  conclusion , because  I cannot  find   ANY  reference to  their  paintings  outside  Bill's   amazing website  (  check   all bottles  with  ONLY  the    source  reference "B" )

And that's also the  case  with  my  own collection ( when  I  finally   photograph it  all  and  put  it  on  my  DB  - you   will    several  artists ONLY   with  source  reference  "P")

Generally  speaking,  any   artist  name   with   3  parts  eg  " Kang  Xian Feng"  is  almost  certainly  a  real name.  But  most  names  with  only    2  parts  is  more  likely  to be a  pen  name ,  and if the   FIRST name  of the   2  is  NOT   one  of the   300+   Chinese   family  names  then  it's   CERTAINLY certainly  a  pen  name  ( but  I cannot  see  any  such  obvious  pen  names  in the  list  you  have  below)

Typical  pen  names    start  with  "Yi"  =  one  or  " Xiao"  =  little   or "Da"  =     big

So  my  best  guess  is  that    nearly  all the bottles  you  have    listed  below   fall  into   this  category  -  certainly  of  they  were   bought  via  David   who was    only  operative   from  about  2000  onwards

Pat's collection  goes  back much  further  in time,  so  I would  expect     several   non -  DB  artists  in his  collection to   be   in a   different   era  ( pre- 2000) ,  but  still   -  probably   -    in the   " flash in a  pan"  category
 
( I  also  have  a  few   pre -  2000   Jing  school   "flash  in a  pan"  artist   bottles  )

The   great  thing  about  collecting  VMIPB  bottles  these  days  is  to  spot    the   REAL    up-coming  masters  before they   become   famous   ...  and   prohibitively   expensive.

 I think  I   hit  right  so far  in  two  cases  :    Hu Xiao Ran  and   Zhang Li  Min ( aka  "Spiderman" ).   In both  cases, as  soon as   I   first  saw their    works  I    instinctively  felt  they  had  true  genius   - in  "Spiderman's"  case  unsigned  and it  took me  2  years  to  track  him  down.

And  my  biggest  find  of  all  was  Song Yi Ming  aka " Da  Cheng"  , my  HERO !,  ,  several  of  whose  most  amazing  landscapes ( never  to be  repeated)     I bought  in the  mid   2000's ,  for much  less  than US$1K ,  and  which  now  form the   backbone of  my  collection.

I  don't  a  fig   what  the   rest  of the   world    thinks  about  these  three   top artists  ( but  in  fact the  RoW  seems to  be  fast  catching  on  to    their   genius  -  certainly  in the  case of    SYM   and  HXR) .

I  only  buy   for  LOVE,  as  long  as I can  afford.  Never for  investment  value.

Cheers  Peter
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rpfstoneman
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2012, 10:39:31 am »

Pat and Peter,

Thanks for the reply.  This was just a quick cross reference to artists listed in Peter's DB and on Bill's site.  As time allows I'll do a little more digging on my end to see if there is any other background information this list of 22 artists.  The good thing was the 30 or so other IPB artists in my collection do show up in Peter's DB.

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2012, 11:46:52 am »

Hi Peter,

I found two Zhang zenglou(shao xiao xuan) bottles which you can add on your DB, He is a incredible artist, I really like the way he applying colors:)


* zzl1.jpg (48.83 KB, 567x411 - viewed 33 times.)

* zzl2.jpg (44.82 KB, 567x411 - viewed 30 times.)
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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2012, 02:00:58 pm »

Dear Charll,
    I can't help, I'm sorry. I'm out of my depth with the MIP artists.
I have a Zhang Zenglo (in CIPMA, it is on p.127, top left.), of Carp swimming, which I bought through Guo Jie. But it only looks as good as the book illustration when backlit. It is painted in Agate, but I was a tad disappointed when I received it. Having said that, I never told Guo Jie, and decided to keep it till I find a better example by him.
 Joey
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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2012, 02:40:49 pm »

I am not familiar with any listed, but will start searching for you too..
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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2012, 10:15:29 pm »

Hi  Steven

Thanks  for the   ZZL pics. Nice  ones  ( especially the    1st one)

 I have     uploaded them  to the  DB

As  I   wrote  before,  I welcome any  / all  pics  you  may have of  VMIPB  bottles  and any  info  you  may  have  on the  artists ( word-doc is best)

You can send  by private  email  ( max  10 MB  of  attachments  per  email)  or  just put them on    a  USB stick and   post   to me

It is a  jungle, and  there's a  lot  of  low-lying  bushes  between the   tall  high  trees

But some  of the  bushes  are  in fact  baby  Redwood  cedars   that  will one  day   out  grow  even the   tallest  trees  today

Cheers  Peter
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« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2012, 11:27:30 am »

Hi Peter,

I found two Zhang zenglou(shao xiao xuan) bottles which you can add on your DB, He is a incredible artist, I really like the way he applying colors:)

Does anyone know anything about the early painting years for Zhang Zeng lou ?

I found a couple of links that tell when he was born ( 1956 ), and his accomplishments from 1987 to present, but nothing else.

I seem to have stumbled into a bottle painted by him in 1997. It looks nothing like his VM bottles I am seeing.

Apparently in 1983 he founded Shenzhou City Arts and Crafts Research insititute..  He must have been considered a Master artist at this time ?  Seems like there would be some info about his time as a student artist. Like when he started painting ..

This bottle, although nice was painted just a few years ealier.  He must have really excelled quickly ! This bottle is not like any of his other VM works I find online. 

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« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2012, 03:53:45 pm »

Hi George,

Zhang start to study inside painting since 1979 with WXS, so he was a pretty mature artist at 90s, I found one pretty close to the one you have.kids playing....

http://xjylhg.q.sohu.com/forum/17/topic/53986344

And again, you made a good decision to keep it...

http://auction.artxun.com/paimai-20877-104382318.shtml

here is one sold in 2009 with $15,000.00

Steven
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« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2012, 04:17:09 pm »

Wow Steven !

How in the world does a bottle like the one I just got go down the auction pike for the past several years without somebody seeing it for what it apparently is ?

Can you tell what year that one small amber bottle that you showed me was painted ?

If anyone else has early examples, would sure love to see them !

Steven... Thank you so much for taking the time to find and share those with me !

Ya know... One of my main interests when I first started collecting was to check out upcoming student artists works in an effort to buy with hopes that some day that student would become a Master.. The idea of course being that even a crudely painted, but signed bottle would be worth some money based on the success of that student achieving Master status. In turn the bottle would be worth a significant amount of money today !

This is actually my first experience with actually possessing such a bottle.. Sure would like to figure out it's value, because I will sell it and turn that money towards more bottles !

An exciting bottle for sure though ..  Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2012, 04:52:18 pm »

Hi George,

If I am not wrong that bottle should be pained in 庚午(1990).

That is why we should pick up something nice at auction house, the most of old  modern master 's work were sold to Western, at that time, they were only students, and the bottles were not worth that much.

20years passed, all the young collectors are master now , also some old collectors started to clean up their collections, i guess its time to pick up some nice ones out there:) .

Anyway, as long as you have knowledge and good taste, you will find some treasures there:)

I really don't know the actually value of the bottle,If I have to guess, I would guess $1000.00-$1500.00, maybe even more. Sometimes, even the big name will worth $1000.00 Grin you will never know.

Good Luck!!

Steven

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« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2012, 04:57:10 pm »

I have  a lot  of  input  to this   thread,  but  not  the   time   just  now

Get back to me  by  private  email  please

Cheers  Peter
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« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2012, 07:14:37 pm »

I am really looking forward to hearing your comments. Peter!
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« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2012, 07:48:32 pm »

Me too !

Check back in as soon as you get the time !
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« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2012, 09:42:29 am »

Hello All-

I have a Wei Jian Caho bottle purchased from David Osborne.  I was told he was a student of Suo Zhen hai, hence the "Suo" style landscape.  From what I understand, he was a later student of Suo.  I have not seen any of his bottles lately.  Does anyone have news of him?

Rick Rhodes (aidan31)

PS  I have 50+ Suo Zhen Hai bottles and bought this one after his death as I am very into Suo's style of panting.


* weilandscape.jpg (120.81 KB, 812x794 - viewed 33 times.)
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« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2012, 11:42:15 am »

Hey Rick! Great to see you 'Out' on the Forum. For all of you, Rick and I have been close friends since we met at the 1980 New Orleans ICSBS convention. That is 32 years!
  Rick, I don't recognise Wei Jian Caho. Sorry.
Be well, Shabbat Shalom, Love to all, Joey
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rpfstoneman
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« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2012, 12:03:45 pm »


Rick,

Just to clarify for me is it Caho or Chao.  I have 2 Wei Jian Chao's I've pick up from David Osborne over the years. 

Charll
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« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2012, 07:27:09 am »

Update: I gave away the Zhang Zenglo...
Joey
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« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2012, 09:41:46 am »

Must be  Chao  ( no  Caho  in pinyin)
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