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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


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Warrior IPB (likely post 1990)-Need Help with Chinese Script

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Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2011, 03:29:07 pm »

Hi  All

Are  we  talking  about   WANG  ZHAN  KANG   or WANG   ZHEN  GANG  王  振  刚   ?

Wang   Zhen  Gang  is  listed    as a    commonly- accepted   1st generation   WXS  pupil  but  I  have  yet to  see  any example  of  his   works

Cheers  Peter

PS  :  Great  to have  Steven  on the     Forum.  Previously  on the  Forum only  Richy  had  native  Chinese.  My  Chinese  is   far below  Steven's  English  and  I only  get by  with my     wife  aka   IPB-secretary's  native  Chinese

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« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2011, 03:42:25 pm »

Hi Peter.

We are talking about wang zhan kang(王占康), he is not WXS's student...

Steven
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« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2011, 03:47:24 pm »

Answered  my  own   question  -  two  entirely  different  guys
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« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2011, 03:48:30 pm »

Agreed

I just explored the blog

Peter
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« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2011, 03:56:08 pm »

Hi Steven

Please  can you give  me the   chinese  characters  for  Xy  Peng Yi  Xu Bu  and  and    the   daughter?

Chyeers  Peter
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« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2011, 04:10:33 pm »

Here you go, Peter..

许鹏启(Xu ,peng qi) and His son 许步( Xu ,bu), His daughter 许卓靖( Xu ,zhuo jing)

P.S, Peter, you are really a night cat, never saw you sleep during the night:), take care of yourself...Smiley

Steven
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« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2011, 07:09:15 pm »

A big thank you goes out to all that have contributed to the ID of the warrior bottle and information provided.  And….Steven, I appreciate the attempt to transcribe the balance of the Chinese script on the bottle.  Understand the complexities of trying to translate between the various Chinese scripts. 

Anxious to hear the outcome of Peter’s initial contact with Xu Bu.   If Xu Bu is in a position to get over the English-Chinese language barrier, the best approach may be as Tom and Steven suggest (i.e., contact him directly). 

Peter, would you let me know if sending an email in English with pics to Xu Bu will be a problem?

Still looking forward to gathering all available information on this bottle, please continue to provide comments as time allows.  The contributions by members to date on this bottle is much appreciated!

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2011, 09:12:01 pm »

Hi  Charll  and  All

I  spoke  to   Xu Bu  yesterday  by phone    and sent  him an email  in English  attaching  a  pic  of  a  Chinese  landscape   bottle on his  website  in the  Top Grade   section, which   I was  particularly  interested  in

(Turns  out  that bottle  was   painted  by   his  father  and  is  priced  in the  US$ 3-4 K  range,  which is  what  I  expected  for  that   quality  of  work. I  told  him  I need to see the  bottle   before  deciding whether   to  purchase  because  some  bottles  look  much better  in real life  than  pics, but  other bottles  look  much  worse  in real life  than pics :  he  understood)

I  deliberately  broke  up the  email  into   short,  simple,  CLOSED    sentences   which  makes  it  easy to  put  through a  language   translator  ( eg  google  or  babblefish)

Written  Chinese  - like  spoken  English  -  is  often a  string  of   half-finished / un-closed  sentences,  which  defeats   language  translation  programs

NOW  :  if  I  re-write  that  past  sentence  in  a  way  amenable  to  language  translation  programs,  I would   write  it  thus  :

"Chinese   writing  style   style  often uses  open (  non-closed)  sentences.

Spoken  English  is the   same.

Open  ( non-closed)  sentences  are very  difficult  for  language  translation    SOFTWARE  programs TO  TRANSLATE "

Get  my  drift  ?

I think  Xu Bu   has a  good  command  of  English   - about the  same  level  as  my  Chinese  - so    any  simple  English  email   will  be  happily  received  and  understood

The  email  on his  web-site  is  correct

Go for  it  !

Cheers   Peter



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« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2011, 02:40:56 am »

Hi Peter and all

I have just joined in this forum and been surprised by your recent discussion as it is Xu Bu !! from whom I bought four bottles for these 6 months. I was satisfied with his beautiful bottles so far. But I have become curious with IPB and if the bottles I bought were valuable enough as I paid. That was the reason why I tried to find related internet sites and come across with this forum.

I am now in Tokyo to stay new year holiday till Jan 3 and return to Beijing on Jan 4. As I mentioned in my self-introduction, I am scheduled to visit Jill's shop. I now think to drop in Xu Bu's shop in Liu Li Chang also.

Misu

p.s. Although I am a Japanese and can read Chinese character perhaps a little bit more than those whose mother tongue is English, Chinese is of course different from Japanese. So do not expect so much to me ! Thank you in advance.
 
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« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2011, 03:56:27 am »

Hi  Misu

Happy  to get  your  reply   ( I  also got  your  private email  which I will  reply to  privately)

You  are  out  first  Japanese  member  on the  Forum  so a very special  and    warm  welcome   Smiley

It's  a  strange   story  about  Xu Bu .  I  thought  I had    researched  almost  every  major  and  minor    artist  and  all   dealers  in China  over the  past   4  years,  and  I  go  to  Liu  Li Chang    many times     each year to look at the  beautiful  paintings  on sale  at  Rong Bao Zhai.   

But  I  NEVER  heard  of  Xu  Bu  and  his  father   Xu  Peng Qi  until  last  week  !  Extraordinary !

That  just  goes  to  show  that  there   are   still    big   "unexplored"   areas  of  MIPBs  !    Cheesy

The  reason  I  did  not  find  Xu Bu's  shop  before  is  that  it  is  on the  EAST  side  of  Liu Li Chang. In  recent  years  I  have  only  visited the  WEST side  of  Liu Li Chang   (  =  Rong Bao  Zhai   art  shop) . 

There  is  SO  much  to  learn  and  so many good  friends  to  relate  to

Next time  we are both  in BJ  I will  take you to the  Wang Xisan  IPB  museum  in NW BJ .  The  opening ceremony  was   in May  this  year.

Yes  -    you  MUST  visit   Jill's   shop  next  time  you  are  in BJ.  It's  in one  of  the  ( many)  antique  city    shopping   centres .   Best to call her   when  you get into a  taxi  so she can  tell the  driver  how  to get there  . Her  number  is 139-1057-8405

All the  bottles  in Jill's   shop  are    by well-known  and/ or  up-coming  artists  so they  are   really  good  quality.  But  the prices  are  in the  US$700  - 2,000  range  ( These  prices  are     set by the  artists , not by  Jill herself because  she   sells  on commission  )

Every time  Jill  has  a  new   lot  of  bottles  I go to  have a  look before  she    puts the bottles  in her   next catalogue

 Wink

I look  forward  to   meeting  you next time  we  are both in BJ at the  same time !

Best wishes  for the  New  Year

Peter



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« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2011, 05:44:57 am »

Hi Peter

Thank you so much for your informative advise.

Xu Bu is a good guy and I like him. But I am not sure if bottles he sells at his shop are his own painted bottles or factory made (based on his original painting) even at moment as I have never seen genuine IPB yet, although I have seen some antique IPB at Jill's shop a week ago. When I have visited her shop unfortunately she was not there on her business trip. So it was hard to communicate with a young man who was taking care of the shop at that time.

On Jan 7 I will visit Jill's shop again. I have contacted her and already made an appointment through e-mail.

I will have a chance to go to HK perhaps once two months. So I look forward to meeting you in HK of BJ sometime in the near future.

Thank you and best regards,

Misu
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« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2011, 06:43:21 am »

Hi Misu San

If  you  visit  Jill's  shop  anytime   you  will  see  about  100  bottles  in the  glass  cabinets

Every  bottle  is  painted  by a  well-known  modern  artist

Jill  never NEVER   sells  any  factory - painted  bottle

In fact  :  Jill   only  sells  on commission : that  means the  artist   loans  the  bottle  to  Jill for  6 -12  months  and  the  artist  fixes  the  price . Jill  displays  the bottle  in her  shop,  but  much more  important  is that she    includes the bottle  in her  next  catalogue   and  promotes the  catalogue  world-wide , which  costs  a lot  of  time and   money

Finally, if  the  bottle  is  not  sold  after   6 - 12 months  Jill  returns  the  bottle  to the  artist

So you can    100%    certain that    every bottle  in Jill's shop  ( and  catalogue)  is  genuine

Cheers  Peter

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« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2011, 07:31:17 am »

Hi Peter

I have fully understood the system of Jill's shop.
After I have looked at Jill's catalogue, I am interested in modern IPB made by young artists. So I am rather exciting to visit her shop next week end.

Thank you again for your advise and looking forward to meeting you soon.

Regards

Misu
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« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2011, 01:27:23 pm »

All,

Well!   As one of the newbie’s and a novice collector (just a little modesty) I may not contribute much in the way of knowledge to the forum, but wow, one can easily be a catalyst for a conversation.  [my humor]   I had no idea that a simple request would lead to so much information, networking, and sharing.  What a snowball.  This is great!   Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2011, 05:47:59 pm »

Hi Charll

Indeed  yes  !  One  simple     posting  by  a  newbie   can   snowball into  so much more

That's  the  beauty  of  a  Forum  in which  everyone  participates  to the  best  of  one's  heart

Cheers   Peter
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« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2012, 03:09:26 pm »

All,

Inscription on one side of the bottle (warrior with a little beard) was quite simple.

The title: "Painting of a Statesman with Great Achievement"
Subtitle: "The Portrait of the Great General of Song Dynasty Yue Fei"
Yue Fei was a general of the South Song Dynasty.  At that time China was invaded by the Jurchen people which occupied most of Northern part of China and established Jin.  Yue Fei, a military genius, fought back and almost single-handly defeated Jin.  However, the royalty became jealous of his achievement and killed him.  From that time on Yue was considered THE hero of Chinese people and he was elevated to God like status.  If you go to West Lake you should see the temple dedicated to him. (岳王廟)

The opposite side of the bottle (warrior with a big beard) is a lot more complicated.

The title: "Painting of a Statesman with Great Achievement"
Subtitle: "The lord of è (鄂) of the Tang Dynasty, Yuchi Jingde, he who enjoyed the privileges equivalent of the 'Three Lords' and can assign his own officials"
I do not want to go into details of the "privileges" or "three lords".  Essentially it means the guy had the highest honor and powers within the kingdom.  Yuchi Jingde was a general of Emperor Taizong of Tang Dynasty, generally considered the greatest king in Chinese history.  Yuchi was famous for his bravery and in fact, after his death, people still invoke his image to ward off the evil.  These days, sometime you still can see in China/Taiwan country side, people stick pictures of 2 warriors on each panel of their door.  One of them is Yuchi Jingde, the other is Qin Shubao, another Tang general.  They are called the door gods, see picture.

Hope this is not too dry for you.  Grin


* 05090133003I01.jpg (66.88 KB, 720x480 - viewed 32 times.)
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« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2012, 06:04:39 pm »

Walter,

Perfect! You have done me a great service and I’ll need to pay in kind sometime. I appreciated not only the translation, but the concise background information.  As mentioned I’m currently in the process of cataloging my bottles.  Where I can I’m trying to including relevant text on the images and translation with each bottle description.  You have saved me some research time, and all I have to do is just cut-and-paste what you provided into the reference section of the bottle’s catalog page.  Thanks for your time and effort.

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2012, 06:14:23 pm »

Hi Charll

Hope that  when you  have  finished  cataloguing  your  bottles   together   with  all   the      supporting  info  you  will    encode  it  into  soft  copy  (   jpg  and  word.doc )   and send to me  so that I can   include  into the  DB  -   of  course  with a    reference  to  you  as the  owner  of the bottle (  every  pic  / info source on my  DB  is   referenced  in my  DB  according to bottle  owner  / source  of  info*  ...  unless the   bottle  owner   prefers  to  remain   anonymous )

(If  you    don't   have  the    skills to  encode   to  soft copy,  you  can send  me    a  hard  copy and  I will scan  at  high  resolution )

* since  I   sent  out  your  copy of the  DB I have  opened a  new   reference  code    for source  of  text info  from the  Forum    coded  " F"

Cheers   Peter
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« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2014, 11:28:52 pm »

Here is Xu Peng Qi and his Father, Xu Bu's family website..

http://www.snuffbottlexu.com/product/index_en.asp?class1id=6&class2id=6
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