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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
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Nice Jade Bottle

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George
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« on: November 15, 2011, 02:50:36 pm »

There are a ton of Jade bottles out there.. Every now and then I see one that I really like.

Love the obvious age, traditional shape, and wonderful carvings.. Beautiful bottle..

1.5" long x 2.25" tall by 0.50" deep

Enjoy !

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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2011, 05:45:27 pm »

Very special, nice craving, but the material is not that good...
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2011, 05:57:19 pm »

I have to agree about the material... Kind of iffy as to being Jade. Although it could be..

Maybe some other kind of hardstone..
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2011, 07:10:52 pm »

Came across this post, kind of get my interest even though I know nothing about jade snuff bottles per se.

The carvings on the bottle are actually the images of old Chinese coins (or currency).  The image on the left was a currency issued by a very short-lived dynasty during the Han (AD 10) period.  See attached picture which the coin has the exact same characters (貨布).  The writing was in 小篆, a long obsolete style.  The image on the right is a coin issued by a king during the warring period (around AD 950) after the Tang dynasty.  This one is even more obscure because the king had only a five year reign!  I actually had to do some research before I was able to identify the coin.  What is really strange was the actual coin (see picture) did not use the old style writing as the other one.  On the other hand, the writing on the snuff bottle is again in the old style!  Which doesn't sense if the image was to replicate the coin itself.

References that are related to the above:

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%8E%8B%E8%8E%BD%E5%B8%81 (in Chinese)

http://primaltrek.com/coinlegend.html

Btw, the aging of the bottle itself seems fake.  The reddish brown color of cracks on jade is normally caused by mercury sipped into the stone.  The presence of mercury itself is usually associated with the fact the jade was buried in the coffin; mercury was used to preserve the body.  I find it unlikely this is the case here.



* 200px-S-148_Wang_Mang_huo_bu.JPG (15.35 KB, 200x219 - viewed 19 times.)

* 3f9528f407fec3fead831a6d2200bc00.jpg (80.95 KB, 645x618 - viewed 19 times.)
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2011, 07:18:10 pm »

Good info there Walter !
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2011, 07:50:00 pm »

Another telltale would be the way the bottle is hollowed out.  So many fakes out there these days that it will drive one crazy. One of the reasons I like to stick with inside painted bottles.  The age of glass and rock crystal is a lot harder to fake.  I find that whenever someone tries to fake old glass, it is pretty darn obvious, because they did not use crappy materials to paint in in those days, and well modern bottles are just modern bottles and look like it.  So then we are only left with the subjects we like and can somehow verify/compare/contrast.  It is ofcourse an oversimplification but with porcelain, agate, other hardstone, who really knows if old or not.  I certainly can't tell, and there is no dating method that I know of.  So it is just a guess, an educated one perhaps, but still a guess and a gamble.
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2011, 08:02:36 pm »

Another telltale would be the way the bottle is hollowed out. 

Your absolutely right..

They do describe it as, and it does appear to be well hollowed..

If this is some kind of agate, that redish brown could be copper..

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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2012, 02:08:06 pm »

Many times, nephrite jade snuff bottles were stained to give an appearance of great age. Even in the 18th C. I really like this bottle, and think it could well be late 18th or early 19th C. The Qianlong Emperor loved antiquity and antiquities, and his court would have emulated him, some to curry favour, many because Chinese culture has almost always revered antiquity.
Beautiful bottle. Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2012, 06:11:24 pm »

Hey  Joey

I don't  collect this   stuff,  but your    constant  - and  most welcome - input  is  fantastic

Cheers   Peter
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2012, 05:07:18 am »

Thank you Peter.
    I've collected general snuff bottles (not just IPs, B&W porcelains, and white nephrite jades, for over 42 years; and visiting other collectors, seeing displays, going to conventions and auctions, I learned a bit [I don't ALWAYS talk nonstop, Charll! ;-)]. It's great to share whatever knowledge I've got with others.
    That is why Israel and the West are successful cultures, and the Arabs and Moslems are failing cultures: WE LOVE TO SHARE KNOWLEDGE; they don't share, even with each other, so someone else won't be able to get stronger. They don't get it: When we share, WE ALL GET STRONGER. When I was learning to read and write Arabic, I wrote (and still do) very clearly, like print. Arabs in the Moslem Quarter, where my best friend Khalil and I had our shop selling antiques, antiquities, old copper and old furniture, would look at my calligraphy, and laugh at me that I wrote like a 7 year old, just learning. I asked them what was wrong with my writing. They answered that ANYONE could read it. I said that the idea behind knowledge was to share it, not keep it hidden.  They said that others could take advantage of people so naive.
I asked them who'd won all the wars and had suffered least from the Intifada, Israel or the Arabs; they said Israel, grudgingly. I said that was because we shared knowledge. They answered that maybe Jews  and Europeans (Faranji - literally Franks, like we are still in the period of the Crusades!) could trust each other; Arabs, never.
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Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2012, 05:52:09 am »

Hi Joey

I  don't  want  to  get into the  Arab/ Israeli  thing,  but  I will  share  one  one thing  :

        it's  that  SHARING  is    the  KEY

( also    the new   BRIGHT    forum    format  !   Cheesy  )

Sharing  is   a   catalyst  -   it  releases     power  and  opinions

And  this   Forum   is    all about   SHARING

George  :  please can you  re-post this  message  in the members'  lounge  and the Pub ?

Cheers, Love,  Shalom

Peter
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2012, 06:15:00 am »

Peter, You are right about not getting into the Politics, but I was using it as an example from life of the difference between sharing knowledge and sitting on it.
Best to all, Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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