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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
March 28, 2024, 01:47:06 pm
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White Jade bottle

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Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2018, 04:40:03 am »

Dear Stew, are you referring to the outer surface? If yes, it should be perfectly smooth.
Anyway, my feeling is that your bottle is not modern.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2018, 03:28:00 pm »

1)The finish does perhaps appear to have a bit of an orange peel finish to it. Nephrite jade is particularly susceptible to undercutting in the sanding/polishing phase and it is very difficult to avoid. This is caused by the stone having areas that are slightly softer and those softer areas peeling off of the harder, lending a so-called "orange peel" mottled sort of finish instead of a brilliant, uniform shine. The lapidarists who cut jade all the time often advise special techniques for avoiding it, such as dragging the stone back and forth from wet to dry across the sanding and polishing wheels, avoiding heat, sanding very slowly, and using diamond powder on a wood wheel for finish. It seems every other person who cuts jade will have contradictory advice, but it is a skill and also is dependent upon the specific materials used to sand/polish and the quality of the stone as well. 2) I tried to follow the link to see Charl's definition of "well hollowed," but the link didn't work. I too would be curious to see this defined.
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« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2018, 07:24:17 pm »

1)The finish does perhaps appear to have a bit of an orange peel finish to it. Nephrite jade is particularly susceptible to undercutting in the sanding/polishing phase and it is very difficult to avoid. This is caused by the stone having areas that are slightly softer and those softer areas peeling off of the harder, lending a so-called "orange peel" mottled sort of finish instead of a brilliant, uniform shine. The lapidarists who cut jade all the time often advise special techniques for avoiding it, such as dragging the stone back and forth from wet to dry across the sanding and polishing wheels, avoiding heat, sanding very slowly, and using diamond powder on a wood wheel for finish. It seems every other person who cuts jade will have contradictory advice, but it is a skill and also is dependent upon the specific materials used to sand/polish and the quality of the stone as well. 2) I tried to follow the link to see Charl's definition of "well hollowed," but the link didn't work. I too would be curious to see this defined.

Yes indeed.. Nephrite has a fibrous makeup.. Like you mention, different lapidaries have different ways of tackling orange peel.  It can require the use of an series of abrasives that can include starting at 140, 280, 300, 1200, 3000, 8000, 14000, and on up to 50,000 and 100,000. Hard wooden wheels can also be used.

Sorry about the link I provided. It was meant to be private. I should not have posted it.. That is why the link will not work.. Apologies..

In a nutshell, a well hollowed bottle would have very thin walls, including the lapidary having worked up into the shoulder of the bottle so that the wall there is also very thin. If well hollowed then some like to use a term, "floater" to show just how well hollowed it is.
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ileney
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« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2018, 07:59:09 pm »

What I didn’t know was if the presence of orange peel in the finish would have anything to say about how old the bottle is or provide any other information about it? Also, I was wondering if there is any particular mm thickness associated with the term “well hollowed.” I always assumed “floater” was the term that literally meant it was hollowed well enough that the bottle would float in water.
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« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2018, 09:06:47 pm »

I was wondering if there is any particular mm thickness associated with the term “well hollowed.” I always assumed “floater” was the term that literally meant it was hollowed well enough that the bottle would float in water.

I would say 3 to 5 mm, and yes, a well hollowed bottle will float in water. 

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« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2018, 09:16:49 pm »

I was wondering if there is any particular mm thickness associated with the term “well hollowed.” I always assumed “floater” was the term that literally meant it was hollowed well enough that the bottle would float in water.

I would say 3 to 5 mm, and yes, a well hollowed bottle will float in water. 



Thickness is consistently 4.5 mm but alas, sinks like a battle-weary ship.
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2018, 04:54:05 pm »

Are you putting a piece of cellotape/scotchtape across the mouth?
I don't know what level of thinness of bottle wall is needed, but it should work.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2018, 07:09:02 pm »

Are you putting a piece of cellotape/scotchtape across the mouth?
I don't know what level of thinness of bottle wall is needed, but it should work.
Best,
Joey

 Grin Grin Grin Though my wife and daughter question my common sense on a daily basis, I am a responsible engineer. So, yep, I used good 'ol Scotch Tape to cover the hole.

I am not a very knowledgeable snuff bottle collector but, it seems to me that smaller bottle would be at a distinct disadvantage.  One would need some sort of minimum wall thickness to keep the bottle structurally sound, especially if the bottle was to be carved. The ratio that would determine buoyancy might be more appropriate for a larger bottle. Also, the shape (round vs. a flattened design) would be relevant. So, that all said, a bottle like this one (after sinking) might be judged to have inferior hollowness when compared to my other much smaller jade bottle introduced in a later post?
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