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Agate floater.

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Author Topic: Agate floater.  (Read 1654 times)
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forestman
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« on: August 13, 2018, 07:09:32 am »

It's been a while since I bought any bottles from ebay but I recently bought 2 from the same seller and this was the cheaper one of the two, neither of which was expensive which made a nice change as there have been some good prices achieved on ebay of late. (Over £5000 for a jadeite bottle and over £1000 for an unsigned middle period IP panelled medicine type bottle).

It was clearly well hollowed from the pictures and had a good stopper and spoon so I was surprised it attracted so few bids so was a bit of a bargin especially as I didn't get charged any import tax  Grin

Banded agate with a jadeite stopper and ivory spoon, 63mm high with a flat, inset foot and slightly concave mouth rim. Extensively and very smoothly hollowed to floater level.

Regards, Adrian.



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« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 07:11:33 am by forestman » Report Spam   Logged

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albert
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2018, 09:46:04 am »

Hi Adrian,

it is a very nice item with a curious stopper!! Thanks for share it!!

Best,
Albert.
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2018, 03:22:03 am »

Dear Albert,

    Why 'curious'? The stopper looks right to me. Do you mean the way the 'cork' has been done? That is more unusual, but still seen. I'm sure, as Tom has described, that twine was often used, but has been replaced by corks, easily available the last 50+ years. Giovanni and I have discussed whether the layered thin cork stoppers, which one sees, as they crumble into dust [and one can see the layers!  Wink], are not simply made of very thinly sliced leather, which certainly would have been easily available in north China.

Dear Adrian,

    You have a really nice late 18th/early 19th C. plain Agate. Did you actually float it, by putting a small piece of cellotape over the opening and placing it in a bowl of lukewarm water? Lukewarm, because if it is indeed a floater, strong temperature changes may crack it.

   I've seen two bottles cracked from the being held by someone whose hand, a moment before, had held a cold mug of beer or of coke. The first, at the home of the late Neal & Frances Hunter, of Laguna Hills, CA, was an overlay glass. The second, also in the home of friends, was the 'floater Agate'. Thank G-D, I was not the 'culprit' in either case.


    Since, I always insist guests rub their hands together, to warm them, if they want to hold a bottle of mine after holding a cold glass. I suggest it, when visiting others' collections.

Best,
Joey
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 01:35:39 am by Joey » Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Jungle Jas
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2018, 05:45:31 am »

Another nice bottle you have there, well done, as for price, I don't know if you are aware but at certain times of the year articles  on eBay can be bought more cheaply. Namely kids school holidays some  sporting events really bad weather. People have other things n there mind. Grin


As for cracking bottles! I broke a very nice glass bottle myself by putting it in warm water that was to hot. Roll Eyes
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Wattana
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2018, 06:19:20 am »

Hi Adrian,

Congratulations! A fine acquisition - especially coming from eBay. The stopper looks old too. Wound thread or twine was far more common than cork in the early days, since the latter was an imported product from warmer climes. All my Mongolian bottles use twine, not cork. 

Thankfully, I have never heard of thermal cracking before, let alone experienced it. Now I have a new nightmare to see me through the night....  Sad

Tom
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Rube
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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2018, 08:00:52 am »

Congrats Adrian!

Tom,

Would one expect to see a flat foot on such an old bottle?

Joey,

Thanks for the friendly reminder! I'm guilty of having cold glass hands while handling warm bottles especially in the summer.

Cheers,

Rube.
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Wattana
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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2018, 08:20:28 am »


Would one expect to see a flat foot on such an old bottle?


Rube,

I was trying to figure out the foot profile, as the photo is not too clear. Adrian's description says "flat INSET foot", which suggests it is recessed, but I cannot see any rim around the recess in the picture.

Adrian, can you elucidate?

Best,
Tom
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forestman
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2018, 09:58:16 am »

Thank you all for the comments.

The foot was one thing that worried me because it is flat, there is no footrim, so it would have been more accurate for me to have described the foot as recessed and not inset. It is not unusual to see a flat, non recessed foot but a flat recessed one is unusual. I have one other which is on a bottle I referred to as a "rotten leaf" agate.

I have only tested the bottle in a shallow dish of water so can't confirm it as a true floater. I can only say the top sank slowly while the base floated well but whether it was well enough to support the whole bottle in deeper water hasn't been answered and I'm now worried about cracking the bottle  Grin

Jason, sorry to hear about the cracked bottle. I will try and be more aware when handling bottles now.

Regards, Adrian.

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OIB
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2018, 11:27:48 pm »

Adrian,

That is a very nice well-hollowed agate bottle.

I also have one or two agate bottles with flat oval-shape base having a shallow concave recesss.

Inn Bok
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Wattana
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« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2018, 12:29:36 am »

Sorry Guys (and Gals, if you're reading this),

I'm having difficulty understanding everyone's terminology when describing the base of Adrian's bottle.
For clarity, I've sketched out three possible interpretations of the base profile - see diagrams below.

Type A - flat recessed base with NO raised foot

Type B - raised foot with a flat recessed base

Type C.1 - raised foot with a flat base (not recessed)

Type C.2 - raised foot with a concave base 

Adrian, please say which of these profiles best describes your agate floater (if any).

Thanks,
Tom


* Base types001.jpg (21.74 KB, 600x865 - viewed 42 times.)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 09:37:12 am by Wattana » Report Spam   Logged

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forestman
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« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2018, 02:51:16 am »

Hi Tom,

C1  Grin

I do find foot descriptions to be misleading, the Treasury books don't help as the descriptions change from the earlier books to the later ones. The jade bottles have basic descriptions but by the glass bottles the descriptions are more detailed.

Regards, Adrian.
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Wattana
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« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2018, 03:55:08 am »

Hi Adrian,

Lucky I asked. From your earlier description and the not very sharp photo I had you down as A.

Tom
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Rube
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« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2018, 07:24:05 am »

Tom,
Your sketches with descriptions are helpful.
But, I guess I’m confused when one would say base vs foot rim? Does that only apply to glass bottles?
Thanks,
Rube
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Rube, 4th Generation Collector

Wattana
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« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2018, 09:36:46 am »

Hi Rube,

As Adrian pointed out, the terminology has changed over the last 20 years. Many collectors call the whole bottom part of the bottle a foot. I prefer to only refer to that part in contact with the table (when stood up) as the foot. Any recessed part not touching the surface is the base.

I take my cue from porcelain collectors, who have been around a lot longer than snuff bottle collectors. They refer to a "base mark", never a "foot mark". But the rim surrounding a recessed base remains a "foot rim".

Best,
Tom
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Rube
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« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2018, 09:49:42 am »

Tom,

Thanks, I'm starting to get it!
Hopefully if you read my posts on the crystal bottle yesterday and malachite one today, I described each correctly!

Cheers,

Rube.
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forestman
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« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2018, 10:33:18 am »

Hi Tom,

This is where it gets confusing.

You say you refer to the part in contact with the table as the foot and also describe bottles as having a raised foot. To the way my (troubled) mind works if you raise a foot it becomes a base and whatever is raising it then becomes the foot. Essentially, yes you are raising the foot but only in order to put another foot under it.

Your sketch B shows what is to me a footrim (foot rim) which in the Treasury books on jade is described as a recessed oval foot which is misleading. You can have more than one kind of recessed oval foot.

I referred to my bottle as having an inset flat foot to describe the fact that the foot is a smaller oval than the body of the bottle, it steps in from what would be the natural line of the body if it continued down in an unbroken line.

Is the foot of my bottle raised or is it lowered but then can you lower something that is already the lowest part  Huh Grin

Regards, Adrian.
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Wattana
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« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2018, 12:46:06 am »

Is the foot of my bottle raised or is it lowered but then can you lower something that is already the lowest part  Huh Grin



Adrian,

Can we discuss Einstein's General Theory of Relativity instead? That's an easier topic.....!   Cool

All best,
Tom
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OIB
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« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2018, 05:55:58 am »

Tom,

Thanks for your brief note. Mine should be described as ' concave recessed base with no raised foot '.

Mine is simpler than Einstein Theory  Cheesy Cheesy

Inn Bok
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2018, 01:41:49 am »

To all on the Forum,

      This has been very good for me, to clarify how to describe the bases, feet, footrims, etc., of SBs.
      I just need to learn how to add the illustrations... Grin
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Wattana
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« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2018, 02:27:33 am »

Dear Joey,

If you could explain to us where the toes and heel of a bottle are, I think we will have all bases covered (no pun intended!).   Grin

Best,
Tom
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 04:28:32 am by Wattana » Report Spam   Logged

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