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Amber basketweave bottle.

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forestman
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« on: May 30, 2018, 06:50:55 am »

This is from a lot of 2 bottles that were passed in a recent auction and which were both described as glass, the other is a smoky natural quartz so they were wrong on both. They were part of a private collection with some being sourced from Robert Kleiner and I am surprised I got them at below low estimate for what was already a low estimate  Wink

Height is 56mm and, as my first amber bottle, I am surprised how light it is. The stopper may not be originally from this bottle as it has a separate collectors label. A very similar bottle was in the Blotch collection.

Regards, Adrian.


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Wattana
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« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2018, 08:19:04 am »

Hi Adrian,

Not bad for your first amber bottle - congratulations! And picking it up below estimate is an added bonus.

The basket-weave pattern appears to be very well executed indeed. By comparison the shoulder 'mantle' seems to be slightly asymmetric, or is that simply a photographic illusion? (see second to last image)

Regards,
Tom
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Luke
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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2018, 10:25:45 am »

Hi Adrian,

Very nice bottle! Was this one for Chiswick Auctions? I was going to bid on their last auction, but it seemed online was unavailable on the day, so was quite frustrating.

Anyway, very nice to pick up an amber when they'd categorised it incorrectly. Sweet bottle...  Smiley

Best,
Luke
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Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2018, 12:25:02 pm »

Dear Adrian, well done! A further prove that knowledge is always rewarding.
Giovanni
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Rube
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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2018, 05:20:30 pm »

Adrian,
Nice amber and basketweave to boot!

Cheers,
Rube
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Rube, 4th Generation Collector

forestman
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« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2018, 03:40:29 am »

Thanks for all the comments.

Tom, if viewed from above or below then the shoulder and base pattern is more symmetrical and not an easy thing to achieve especially as you are working around a flattened circle. There are other examples with more deeply incised lines more like rope on their shoulders and bases but the basketweave  pattern on mine is more elongated than on others and does seem to be very well executed.

Luke, yes it was Chiswick Auctions, I had no problems with online bidding, the only problem was them going at 200 lots an hour instead of their usual less than 100 meaning I was late for the first and most interesting group of bottles so feel very lucky to have got these as they were passed. Some bottles went well but others went for low prices and had I been early enough I would have put bids on far more bottles. I came away with 8 bottles from 4 lots with 3 lots bought at under low estimate. If you want to know prices of any lots I have them recorded.

Regards, Adrian.
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2018, 08:58:06 am »

Dear Adrian,

    I have a bit of info for you on your new Amber bottle.
Congratulations on it, by the way.
I bought that bottle with that identical stopper, from Y.F. Yang & Co., Hong Kong, for US$84 via catalogue, in 1974.

    It was part of 34 bottles I brought to Robert Kleiner, who was then in Sotheby's London Chinese Dept., in Nov.1980, to sell on my behalf.  I'd weeded them out from my collection, fresh from the 1980 ICSBS Convention in New Orleans that year, where I'd bought 12 bottles and met Rick  (who is on the Forum).

    One bottle, a modern double-gourd shape in Lapis Lazuli, was so low in value, I took it home, had it mounted in 18K gold as a pendant, and gave to my late mom.
One bottle, a late 19th C. Enameled and Molded porcelain of 9 fu dogs playing with brocade balls, the decoration gilded, the background with turquoise glaze, but such a degraded example of a Jiaqing mold, it had to be  Guangxu, Robert bunged into Sotheby's London sale in May, 1981, where it fetched UK£ 450 to my shock. At first I thought I'd sold a genuine Jiaqing, but when I'd seen it in Honolulu with a US$1800 price-tag, i knew I'd not made a mistake. The dealer was simply a crook.

   The remaining 32 bottles (including this one) were  divided into 2 lots of 16 each, and set to be sold with a reserve of UK£ 1,000 each lot. They were sold in Torquay in a furniture auction, for UK£100 each lot !  Thanks to the wonderful Carlos & Mercedes Soler, who looked after a very naive 24 year old (yours truly), I was paid the full UK£2,450 from my three lots, NETT.
Which I promptly spent on some much better bottles (a Gan Xuanwen for UK£47; a Zhou Leyuan in clear glass (not frosted), for UK£90; etc.).

   This Amber SB is 19th C. (Ca. 1830-1880) though it could be a bit earlier. It is nicely but not finely carved, in a rice pattern, or basket weave pattern design allover, but for the smooth neck. The white glass stopper was on it when I received it in a parcel from Y.F., then at Ocean Terminal, Tsimshatsui, Kowloon.

   It was my first Amber, and I LOVED IT; till I got 2 better Ambers in 1978 & 1980: a late 18th C. sort of cylindrical Amber carved in low relief with a deer in a forest, from Y.F. in 1980 and had a large bulbous plain Amber, in 1978 from Y.F.  Then it was not as appealing.
As well, I had a superb basket weave/ rice pattern in White Nephrite Jade, and this was, by comparison, just mediocre.

   Seeing it again, I wish I'd kept it. It was (and I guess, still is) so very tactile.
Best Wishes,
Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Rube
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« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2018, 10:08:07 am »

Adrian,

MAN,  you are on a roll!  Provenance doesn't get any better than that!!

Cheers,

Rube.
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Rube, 4th Generation Collector

forestman
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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2018, 02:57:36 pm »

Dear Joey,

Thank you very much for the provenance for this bottle, my first decent bit of provenance for any bottle. I feel a bit like your younger brother getting your hand me downs  Cheesy

Regards, Adrian.
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Luke
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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2018, 04:06:40 am »

Hi Adrian,

I was particularly intrigued by the cinnabar bottle with Qianlong mark and the price that went for if you happened to record it? Is rubbish, because my Invaluable account which i bid through is now asking me to pay a subscription to find out what past items went for, which seems a huge rip off  Undecided

Best
Luke
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forestman
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« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2018, 04:27:05 am »

Hi Luke,

It went for £2000 hammer price, the most expensive snuff bottle sold in the auction. It surprised me that there were obviously buyers with money at the ready and yet many bottles went for low prices. I suppose it depends on what's going well at present and glass bottles can be overlooked (except the realgar minus stopper at £950) which suits me as it's my main area for collecting. Silhouette agates and stone went well.

Regards, Adrian.
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Rube
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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2018, 08:03:36 am »

Luke,

I, too, am upset about that subscription fee for Invaluable. Not cheap, I might add.  So far, it's only been from Chiswick's that I haven't been able to check pricing for items on my watch list.  The other thing that infuriates me are the astronomical buyers premiums set by the auction houses, ROBBERS!

Cheers,

Rube.



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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2018, 01:35:32 pm »

Dear Joey,
you are a sort of Encyclopedia of the snuff bottle field!
Dear Rube, it is a shame. I bought recently a Chinese porcelain hat stand at a local secondary auction and found after the purchase that they were asking 35% of the hammer price!
Giovanni
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2018, 06:16:36 pm »

Dear Giovanni,

    Well like other Encyclopedias, this one needs to publish a correction.
I was talking to a good friend who visited me in Israel in 1990, and who remembers this bottle in my collection before I moved all my bottles to Ireland, and then in 1991 or so, to Clare Chu, who sold most on my behalf.
   
    Truthfully, I did not keep the list of the bottles Sotheby's London sold on my behalf in April/May 1981.
So you can actually extend my ownership from Nov.1974 - April/May 1981, to Nov.1974 -  June 1991.
And I'm assuming Clare Lawrence Ltd. sold the bottle in the UK between June 1991 and Oct. 1995.

Best,
Joey
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Luke
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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2018, 04:04:40 am »

Hey Adrian,

Thanks for the info! I feel the same way about blue and whites. They're often on the cheaper end too compared to your jades, ambers etc... Would like to actually visit Chiswick auctions next time, live, but it's always seems to be a weekday...  Tongue

Rube,

Yeah very opportunist of them and a bit of a kick in the teeth to the users IMO  Undecided Also, I've noticed its only Chiswick at the moment - bit odd.

Best,
Luke

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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2018, 12:56:27 am »

Dear Rube,

     What are the buyers' premiums today?
   The only item I buy online at the moment is Nabataean Coins, and the online coin auctions charge 20% commission, plus packing and shipping [US$27 within the USA].
 
    "In the early days" [the way the late Y.F. Yang, of blessed memory would start a story  Roll Eyes Grin] the 'regular' auctions [no internet auctions then!] charged 10% buyer's commission, plus sales tax on the commission [NOT on the hammer price]. The highest rate in the USA was combined NYC & NY State taxes of 8.25% [so a SB with a US$1,000 hammer price cost US$1,108.50 after commission and taxes in NYC].  This is now topped by the LA & Calif. State tax level of 8.75%. The only places I bought SBs at auction in the USA, were NYC {8.25%, 1979-present}; LA, CA {7.25%, 1984}; East Dennis, MA {5%, 1980-2005}; and Honolulu, HI {6.25%, 1981}.

    Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


   


Luke,

I, too, am upset about that subscription fee for Invaluable. Not cheap, I might add.  So far, it's only been from Chiswick's that I haven't been able to check pricing for items on my watch list.  The other thing that infuriates me are the astronomical buyers premiums set by the auction houses, ROBBERS!

Cheers,

Rube.




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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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