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Cloisonne Bottle/Jar

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Author Topic: Cloisonne Bottle/Jar  (Read 2775 times)
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Luke
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« on: May 26, 2018, 04:02:31 am »

Dear members,

Please see attached this small cloisonne jar or bottle, which is just 4.5cms high including the stopper. There are 8 faces if you count the floral borders and every face has a different design. The cloisonne wire itself appears to be guilted silver rather than gold. Traces of the silver guilt can especially be seen around the mouth. It has nearly completely rubbed off on the foot exposing the base metal underneath, which I'm guessing must be either bronze or copper. Lastly, the bottle is enameled inside with blue turquoise and there is yellowish enamel on the inside of the stopper too.

I think the quality here seems quite good especially given the height of the bottle. What do others think? If you look at the closeup photo of the stopper or top you can see swirls of cloisonne wire in the blue enamel - holding this in the hand and looking through a loupe I think a lot of effort has gone into producing this.

My guess is that this may be Japanese and I have no real idea of age - what do others think? My random guess would be anywhere from 1870 to 1960. Lastly, I'm guessing this probably isn't for snuff, but maybe for medicine or herbs... Any replies/comments much appreciated...

Best,
Luke
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 03:45:51 am by pookles » Report Spam   Logged

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Rube
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« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2018, 07:25:08 am »

Luke,
I can’t comment to its age, but what a darling little jar! I really like all the different motifs represented. Thanks for sharing this cloisonné.

Cheers,
Rube
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« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2018, 02:59:42 pm »

Hi Luke,

I like it too. I think the Blotch collection had a porcelain bottle that was similar in being covered in different geometric designs. I'll try and find it.

Regards, Adrian.
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Luke
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2018, 03:16:49 am »

Hi Rube/Adrian,

It is an attractive item. There is what I assume to be goldstone glass/enamel embedded in the dark blue in the floral panels, so when you turn the item it subtly glitters. A nice touch.

I've tried researching this one, but cannot find anything similar. The symbols depicted here don't feel Chinese to me (although there are some ying yangs on one panel), but the colour palette does. Bit stumped, but I'll keep reading up...

Best,
Luke
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2018, 10:11:49 am »

Dear Luke,

I have same feeling as you, the motif does not feel chinese to me as well, it could be japanese origin, but very attractive item indeed.

Cheers!

Steven
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Luke
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2018, 03:55:54 am »

Dear Steven,

Thanks for your comment. I’ve solved the mystery after reading up about Japanese cloisonne. This is definitely Japanese. The geometric patterns are sometimes known as brocade and are inspired by textile patterns. The one pattern that is repeated all the way around in yellow with 3 leaves is the symbol of the Japanese empress... I’m  putting the age of this jar for now as late 19thC (please let me know if anyone knows more!). Also goldstone is never found on Chinese cloisonne and this has fragments embedded throughout the enammel...

Cheers
Luke
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2018, 09:12:46 am »

Dear Luke,

    Everything you wrote, I'd intended to write. I saw a similar vessel in the Murakami Cloisonné Museum in Kyoto, a month ago. I would date it ca.1890-1930.
I have a small collection of Japanese Cloisonné vessels, mainly small in size; if you ever want to sell it, please give me first refusal. (As long as it has no damage).
Best,
Joey
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Luke
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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2018, 03:49:08 am »

Dear Joey,

Thanks for the info and I’m intrigued by the mention of your small collection as I’ve found miniature examples hard to find. I will google the name of the museum you mention.

This one does have rubbing to the silver gilt and pitting to the enamels. Also there is a tiny chip to the underside of the finial on the stopper, so unsure whether you would be interested and my girlfriend has fallen in love with this small pot. If I do ever decide to sell though I’ll definitely run it by you first...

Best,
Luke
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2018, 04:28:45 pm »

Dear Luke,
   
   I made a mistake. It is the Namikawa Cloisonne Museum in Kyoto.
Your girlfriend should trump me.
Re.damage, I'd have to see it.
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2018, 10:54:08 pm »

Dear all,

This is one of my recent additions to my collection, 70mm high and both faces have the same design of ' shou ' motif.
The collector is a Chinese from either the Mainland or Taiwan. I believe it was a Qing  but not sure of the period.

For sharing and your comments, please.

Inn Bok


* PYBA2869.JPG (33.63 KB, 683x1024 - viewed 128 times.)

* NIOQ9550.JPG (28.87 KB, 683x1024 - viewed 111 times.)

* GVSC8974.JPG (37.84 KB, 683x1024 - viewed 82 times.)

* XGHE3399.JPG (39.27 KB, 683x1024 - viewed 92 times.)
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2018, 11:00:55 pm »

Dear all,

Sorry for an error in my earlier posting, The one showing the base is the wrong one. It belongs to another bottle whose pictures I am about to post.


Inn Bok
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« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2018, 11:05:34 pm »

This is the other cloisonne bottle I mentioned earlier.
It is 70mm high and has similar motif one both faces. For sharing and comments, please.

Inn Bok


* FORG1118.JPG (38.58 KB, 683x1024 - viewed 117 times.)

* MZAE9125.JPG (38.22 KB, 683x1024 - viewed 131 times.)

* XGHE3399.JPG (39.27 KB, 683x1024 - viewed 105 times.)

* b3b82fb2-ae30-4c4c-a4e4-67b1f905f2f9.jpg (39.03 KB, 683x1024 - viewed 79 times.)
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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2018, 03:58:16 am »

Dear Inn Bok,

    Both bottles are very pleasing. Re.Dating: I would say ca. 1880-1960.
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2018, 04:51:56 am »

Joey,

Thanks for your feedback.

Inn Bok
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« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2018, 05:12:07 am »

Dear Inn Bok,

     I have been thinking that I should explain the 80 year spread of dating.

     The two bottles both look very nice and could be ca.1880-1910, ie. Qing Dynasty.
But they could also be ca. 1910-1949, and thus Republic of China.
Finally, they could also have been made between 1950 and 1960.

    I just could not decide, so I gave the wide dating goalposts I did. I'd love to be able to
narrow it, in one direction or another.
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2018, 12:16:26 am »

Dear Joey,

As you always mentioned, you need to handle / fonder the
bottles to be more sure of their datings.
So wait till we meet again 😄😄

Inn Bok
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joearp
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« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2018, 08:17:47 am »

Luke_your bottle is most unusual and I think the panels show a lot of attention to detail.  Great addition to your collection.  Inn Bok the two you shared are also very beautiful.   Thank you both for sharing these fine examples
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Luke
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« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2018, 06:10:11 am »

Thanks Jo - I've been trying to find out more about this one and have started to get really interested in Cloisonne from around the Meji era. Have been trying to pin down the possible workshop or artist for this item.

Dear Inn Bok,

I came across a similar bottle to yours:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Chinese-Cloisonne-Snuff-Bottle-3-L-c-1800s/173476489336?hash=item2864012878%3Ag%3A7hQAAOSwZ35ZlgoG&LH_BIN=1

What do you think? I think yours appears to be older from the surface wear and the colour palette is a bit different, but perhaps few similarities...

Best
Luke
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 04:38:34 am by pookles » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2018, 09:39:50 am »

Hi Luke,

Sorry for not responding earlier as I have not visited the Forum site for the last two weeks. My apology.

The link sent by you showed a bottle similar in design idea from mine, except the bottle in the link is a bit more bulbous in form.

Inn Bok
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Luke
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« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2018, 05:38:52 am »

Hi Inn Bok,

No worries and now I've taken ages to get back to you - sorry about that! Busy life!

Yes, I thought the bottle was similar too, but yours to my eye has a nice patina or surface wear and the cloisonné detailing itself seems to finer/more refined... anyway very nice bottles!

Luke Smiley
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