About This Forum

This snuff bottle community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert collectors. Topics are intended to cover all aspects and types of bottle collecting. To include trials, tribulations, identifying, researching, and much more.

Among other things, donations help keep the forum free from Google type advertisements, and also make it possible to purchases additional photo hosting MB space.

Forum Bottle in the Spotlight

Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
March 19, 2024, 05:07:22 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Contact Login Register  

Metal bottle

Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Metal bottle  (Read 2671 times)
0 Members and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.
Rube
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 829


« on: May 25, 2018, 10:26:47 am »

Hi Everyone,

Just sharing a bottle I'm curious about.  It's a metal bottle measuring 2 3/4", I think bronze?  And it appears to have silver inlay in the design of a phoenix.  Is this considered niello?  And if so, would the bottle be Japanese in origin?  There seems to be some inconsistencies with patina, due to repairs?  Any help with the dating or any other comments are most welcome.
Although a much nicer bottle, this is one for comparison based on the material, and inlay.
http://www.snuffbottle.com/images_collection.php?id=18

Have a nice weekend,

Rube.


* metal 1.jpg (81.18 KB, 480x640 - viewed 143 times.)

* metal 2.jpg (86.5 KB, 480x640 - viewed 158 times.)

* metal 3.jpg (57.72 KB, 480x640 - viewed 190 times.)

* metal 4.jpg (90.54 KB, 480x640 - viewed 192 times.)

* metal 5.jpg (66.26 KB, 480x640 - viewed 209 times.)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 10:30:28 am by Rube » Report Spam   Logged

Rube, 4th Generation Collector

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Steven
Global Moderator / Forum Detective
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4101



« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2018, 01:54:24 pm »

Dear Rube,

Thank you for sharing such interesting piece.

My first impression is that bottle could be Japanese in origin because of the design. Sorry that I can't have much experience of dating the bottle but it does look old to me.

Steven

Report Spam   Logged

Rube
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 829


« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2018, 07:35:27 am »

Steven,

Nice to hear from you!  I saw a beautiful Japanese lac burguate bottle of the same shape and design (I’ll try and post it if I can remember where) which made me wonder if it was Japanese.
Cheers,
Rube
Report Spam   Logged

Rube, 4th Generation Collector

Luke
Private Boards
Sr. Member
***
Posts: 309


« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2018, 12:11:57 pm »

Hey Rube,

Very nice bottle. I really like the shape. I like these metal ones but haven’t read much about them. It really looks like it has some age to my eye and looks like bronze (but I’m no expert  Smiley).

Cheers
Luke
Report Spam   Logged

Collecting snuff bottles since 2016

forestman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 826


« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2018, 02:55:56 pm »

Hi Rube,

Mixed metal work is certainly something that the Japanese are associated with, it figures a lot on sword fittings, ojime beads, vases, cigarette cases etc and in the work of the Komai company. I have seen snuff bottles in mixed metal that look far more Japanese than the one you have shown but I don't mean to discount it as Japanese by saying that as it could well be.

Regards, Adrian.
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 11271


« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2018, 08:19:01 am »

Dear Rube,

   Travelling (I'm in Toronto till Sun.), I'm limited to my iPAD, which is making it hard to see the detail. But niello is using mercury to make a dark design on/in silver.

This looks to be simply inlaying silver in another metal, brass, bronze, etc.
Best,
Joey
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 05:54:53 pm by Joey » Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Jungle Jas
Full Member
***
Posts: 248


« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2018, 02:38:38 pm »

Hi Rube,

Interesting bottle you have there, I agree 100% with what Joey posted. Plus my own observations as follows. Looking at the legs and feet of the mythical beast it looks Thai or possibly Indian. Do Thais take snuff? However there also appears to what could be a string of coins on the top left so I am at a bit of a loss regarding origin.  As for material, I was a metal worker for many years but the patina makes it imposable to say what is for certain, Brass or bronze. It looks cast which has be leaning towards bronze, but it could be brass, is It heavy or reasonably light for its size? Indeed the spoon looks copper but this could be due to being immersed in snuff for long periods of time. Try giving it a rub along the edge of the spoon. As for age It certainly isn't new. Sorry I haven't been  much help. Grin

Kind regards Jason.
Report Spam   Logged
Rube
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 829


« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2018, 07:27:18 am »

All,

Thanks for commenting on this bottle.

Jason, 

 I'd call it heavy for it's size. Somewhere, and I can't find it at the moment, I came across a beautiful image of a lac burgaute bottle that was the same shape and motif of the phoenix, which makes me think it could be Japanese. Can you comment on the small discrepancies (gold areas) to the patina? Repairs?
Metalworking and glassblowing?  Impressive resume!

Cheers,

Rube.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 07:46:22 am by Rube » Report Spam   Logged

Rube, 4th Generation Collector

Jungle Jas
Full Member
***
Posts: 248


« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2018, 03:18:47 am »

Hi Rube,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you I have been away on holiday.  Grin I cannot comment on the inlay as I don't have a clear enough view, it does look yellow indicating gold or some other yellow metal, something zinc based.? But again given a gentle rub it may turn more silver looking. On the third picture of the side of the bottle you can see two colour  discrepancies one on the neck and another towards the base indicating the use of a softer metal to repair a dodgy casting implying the bottle has some age, as today it would be easer and quicker to melt it down and start again. As for my many and varied career, I'm afraid I am a restless soul who loves to learn new things but then gets fed-up rapidly. Not a good trait to have.   Roll Eyes     

Kind Regards Jason.
Report Spam   Logged
Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 11271


« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2018, 07:02:43 pm »

Dear Jason,

     Yes, Thais do take snuff. Or at least, did; though from a story told by Pat or Tom from Bangkok, some still do. As well, there were a good number of metal SBs in Thailand.
Best,
Joey

Hi Rube,

Interesting bottle you have there, I agree 100% with what Joey posted. Plus my own observations as follows. Looking at the legs and feet of the mythical beast it looks Thai or possibly Indian. Do Thais take snuff? However there also appears to what could be a string of coins on the top left so I am at a bit of a loss regarding origin.  As for material, I was a metal worker for many years but the patina makes it imposable to say what is for certain, Brass or bronze. It looks cast which has be leaning towards bronze, but it could be brass, is It heavy or reasonably light for its size? Indeed the spoon looks copper but this could be due to being immersed in snuff for long periods of time. Try giving it a rub along the edge of the spoon. As for age It certainly isn't new. Sorry I haven't been  much help. Grin

Kind regards Jason.
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Jungle Jas
Full Member
***
Posts: 248


« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2018, 03:57:05 pm »

Dear Joey,

Thank you for replying, and it is nice to know the Thais do or did take snuff as I have spent some time in that part of the world but never seen it myself.

Kind regards Jason.
Report Spam   Logged
Wattana
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 6133



« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2018, 10:47:09 pm »


Thank you for replying, and it is nice to know the Thais do or did take snuff as I have spent some time in that part of the world but never seen it myself.


Hi Jason,

I have spent 25 years in this part of the world, and never seen anyone take snuff here, so don't feel bad about it.  Wink

Best,
Tom
Report Spam   Logged

Collecting since 1971

OIB
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 1273



« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2018, 09:32:31 am »

Dear all,

Just to share a metal bottle of cylindricak form, engraved with poems and one of the eight immortals.
It is 65mm high and 23mm in diameter.
The carver's pen-name as appeared on bottle was 环中子,and original name was 马骀 Ma Tai ( 1886 - 1937 ).
This bottle could be one of eight bottles in a set depicting the 8 Immortals. ( Richard Baey has also one such bottle but engraved with another immortal !

Inn Bok


* HLDV2568.JPG (14.74 KB, 533x800 - viewed 105 times.)

* LZNH6962.JPG (18.28 KB, 533x800 - viewed 102 times.)

* PMJJ1881.JPG (19.29 KB, 533x800 - viewed 197 times.)

* CARB8151.JPG (19.15 KB, 533x800 - viewed 131 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Rube
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 829


« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2018, 10:10:08 am »

Inn Bok,

Nice bottle!  It's neat that your bottle and the one from Richard's collection can commune with one another.

Cheers,

Rube.
Report Spam   Logged

Rube, 4th Generation Collector

Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 11271


« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2018, 10:09:05 am »

Dear Inn Bok,

    Very nice example, and the fact that it is signed is wonderful.
Is Richard's identical to yours, but for the difference in subject? In other words, could they be two out of a set of 8?
And if so, were both sold in the same place?
Best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

OIB
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 1273



« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2018, 07:59:28 am »

Joey and all,

Richard and I believed our bottles would have been part of a set of eight ( 8 Immortals ).

We bought on separate dates, not knowing the other has one. Richard had his earlier than mine.

Any tip from anyone on how to keep the bottle from tarnishing in a highly humid enviroment like Singapore ?

Inn Bok
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 11271


« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2018, 08:06:09 am »

Dear Inn Bok & Richard,

 Any chance we could see photos of the two bottles together?
Re. tarnishing.
If you get Silica gel, dry it out in an oven, and keep it with the cleaned bottle in a hermetically sealed plastic bag, it may stop more tarnishing.
Best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

OIB
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 1273



« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2018, 08:42:15 am »

Thanks Joey for the tip.

Inn Bok
Report Spam   Logged

OIB
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 1273



« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2018, 08:44:14 am »

Richard,

If you have the picture of the cylindrical metal bottle of the other Immortal, would you like to cut and paste next to the picture I posted ? For comparison ....

Inn Bok

Report Spam   Logged

forestman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 826


« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2018, 10:49:45 am »

Hi Inn Bok,

Nice bottle. I see very few genuine metal ones come up for sale and haven't managed to secure one yet but will keep on trying.

Regards, Adrian.
Report Spam   Logged

Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal