Porcelain Double Bottle

[Rube]

Greetings,

I'd like to share a porcelain bottle that was purchased in 1969.  It measures 2 1/16" w/o stopper.  Per usual, I have questions regarding it's dating?  I know the marks on the base are not real, but based on the subject matter ( which I really like!) is it possible that it's Daoguang?  Would I categorize this as a molded double bottle?  Also, there is a dark mark near the base, is this the result of a firing problem?

Cheers,

Rube.

[ileney]

I know nothing about dating, but I love the bottle and the theme!

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Rube,

     Yes, you can describe it as "a molded double bottle".
The subject of shrimp swimming amongst water weeds, was not known to me
before Qi Baishi painted the subject.
Does anyone know an earlier dating for this subject?
If not, I'd date it 'Republican' , and ca. 1910 - 1935, at the earliest.
{I added "at the earliest", due to Giovanni's comment. }
Shabbat Shalom,
Best,
Joey

[Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush]

Dear Rube,
it is not easy to date this bottle, but I believe that Joey is right.
If considering the potting alone, it could be earlier, but the decoration is not. I have never seen the grass painted that way before. And the black lines too looks modern, so I would not date it before than the period suggested by Joey, or even later.
But it is just an opinion.
Kind regards
Giovanni

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Thank you, dear Giovanni.
I add a 'post-script', due to your post.
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey

[Rube]

Giovanni and Joey,

I appreciate your help with the possible dating of this bottle. I do think it is inspired in part by the art of Qi Baishi, but I failed to realize when he lived. I thought I remember seeing a bottle from the J & J Collection with crustaceans that dated earlier, but I'm not near my books and don't remember the exact dating of that example.  I'll check again next week.

Ileney, I'm with you, I don't know anything about these types of bottles but this one always makes me smile, especially the frogs!

Cheers,

Rube.

[Rube]

This is the closest I could come, at least in subject matter anyway:

It's from Christies, 1993, the Reif Collection, and they called it Daoguang in the catalog.

Cheers,

Rube.

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Rube,

     The potting on that bottle makes me think it could be Daoguang [1821-1850] or early Xianfeng [1851 - 1861].  But if it is from this later reign, it can't be later than 1857, since the Taiping troops, who'd occupied Jingdezhen in 1855, in 1857 destroyed the whole town, and murdered most of the 20,000 inhabitants, when forced to withdraw by Imperial Qing troops. Jingdezhen was not rebuilt and repopulated till after 1865.

    The potting on yours is later - from 1890 to 1930 [late Guangxu {till 1908} or Puyi {1909-1911}, or Republic {1911-1949}.

    The subject matter does indeed go back earlier than I thought.
Qi Baishi [1864-1957] was painting from 1884 to his death in Sept. 1957.
Best,
Joey

[Rube]

Joey,

Thanks for putting these timelines in perspective.

Cheers,

Rube.

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Rube,

     My pleasure.
Best,
Joey