About This Forum

This snuff bottle community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert collectors. Topics are intended to cover all aspects and types of bottle collecting. To include trials, tribulations, identifying, researching, and much more.

Among other things, donations help keep the forum free from Google type advertisements, and also make it possible to purchases additional photo hosting MB space.

Forum Bottle in the Spotlight

Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
March 28, 2024, 08:27:55 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Contact Login Register  

Blue and White Porcelain ID

Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Blue and White Porcelain ID  (Read 605 times)
0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.
Rube
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 829


« on: March 12, 2018, 08:49:43 am »

Hi everyone,

I'm sharing a blue and white porcelain bottle, as I'd like to learn more about this class. It's a theme I've seen many times, but I was hoping to establish potential dating on this particular bottle.  Am I right in calling it decorated in underglaze cobalt blue, with an apocryphal  six character Yongzheng mark? It measures 2 5/8". Does it translate as Virtue, Victory, Gate? Is it a good sign that the walls of the neck are so thin?

Any help is greatly appreciated, as always!

Cheers,

Rube.


* BW 1.jpg (80.97 KB, 480x640 - viewed 49 times.)

* BW 2.jpg (79.24 KB, 480x640 - viewed 37 times.)

* BW 3.jpg (75.11 KB, 480x640 - viewed 46 times.)

* BW 4.jpg (61.78 KB, 640x438 - viewed 43 times.)

* BW 5.JPG (89.66 KB, 640x480 - viewed 42 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Rube, 4th Generation Collector

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 4049



« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2018, 11:44:26 am »

Dear Rube,
Yes it is decorated in underglaze cobalt blue. Just for the report, if it was decorated in cobalt blue and then not covered by the glaze, the decoration would turn out black instead of blue.
I am unsure about the date of your bottle. The appearance of the foot is that of recent bottles, and about the thin body, I am suspecting that it is slip casted.
You could inspect the inside of the bottle with a light. If the inside is very uniform and you do not see joint lines, like for example between the body and the base, then it is more probably slip casted and hence not that old. 
I have the feeling that there are appearing new bottles on the market which are very well decorated, like your one, if it turns out to be modern.
Let’s hear for the opinion of other members.
Kind regards
Giovanni
Report Spam   Logged

Rube
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 829


« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2018, 12:24:44 pm »

Giovanni,

I'll be sure to look for these clues the next time I'm near this bottle, which will be in less than a month. I can't give an exact date, but I know it was purchased prior to 1976.

Thanks,

Rube.
Report Spam   Logged

Rube, 4th Generation Collector

Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 4049



« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2018, 01:14:05 pm »

Dear Rube,
slip casting technique has been adopted prior to 1976, I don't know exactly when, it should be somewhere in the first half of the 20th C.
For my parameters, I consider a 1976 bottle as modern, although I know that not everybody agree on that.
Kind regards
Giovanni
Report Spam   Logged

rpfstoneman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2340



« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2018, 04:23:32 pm »


Rube,

Your assessment looks pretty good. Painted with a scene of Manchu officials riding towards the 'Victory Gate', with a Yongzheng mark.  One of the more common designs found in blue and white porcelain snuff bottles.  These tend to date from Guangxu (1875-1908) and further into the 1st quarter of the 20th century from my experience.   Given that the bottle shape is less squatty from what I tend to see with this design it makes me think it could be a later reproduction that was being marketed to snuff bottle collectors in the late 1960's and 1970's.  Also some concerning elements to dating this bottle to a later datie is the hard, bright, glossiness of the over-glaze and the roughness seen along the base of the foot rim.  Without handling it in person my date range would be 1875-1970.  Sounds very much in line to what Giovanni was saying.

Charll

P.S. - Giovanni, you and I are going to have to get together on slip-casting use in China.  I've been asking this question of snuff bottle dealers for the last two years and no one seems to have an answer.  I think it's use could be earlier.   
Report Spam   Logged

Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 4049



« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2018, 03:08:31 am »

Dear Charll,
I am glad that we are in line with our opinions, thank you.
Do you mean that slip casting in China could possibly have been adopted even in the late 19th century? It will be interesting to determine that.
Although I think that I have never seen a slip casted 19th century vase, it is possible that the technique was first adopted for small items like the snuff bottles.
Kind regards
Giovanni
 
Report Spam   Logged

Rube
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 829


« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2018, 08:27:15 am »

Charll,

Thanks so much for adding to this thread.  I find your comments regarding its shape, and the condition of the glaze on different areas of bottle to be very helpful. In due time, I'll try and report on the inside findings.

Cheers,

Rube.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 09:04:04 am by Rube » Report Spam   Logged

Rube, 4th Generation Collector

Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal