General information about the Site

This snuff bottle community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert collectors. Topics are intended to cover all aspects and types of bottle collecting. To include trials, tribulations, identifying, researching, and much more.

Photobucket

Among other things, donations help keep the forum free from Google type advertisements, and also make it possible to purchases additional photo hosting MB space.

Forum Bottle in the Spotlight

Adrian recently shared this wonderful Yan Yutian panelled bottle

Gotheborg's Marks On Chinese Porcelain

Photobucket

Snuff Bottle Collector


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
May 25, 2018, 06:05:46 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Downloads Gallery Staff List Login Register  

Trying to trace the provenience of SB bought in the seventies

Pages: [1]
  Add poll  |  Print  
Author Topic: Trying to trace the provenience of SB bought in the seventies  (Read 310 times)
rosegl
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 67


View Profile
« on: January 25, 2018, 09:22:18 am »

Hello,
I'm addressing those among you that are in the business for many years (e.g. Joey...). I spent the last weeks on establishing a catalogue of our collection. One of the points is, of course, the provenience of the bottles. Many of them were sold anonymously, i.e. I just know the name of the shop or the auction house. In some cases, the name of the previous owner is mentioned. Several names could be identified (information about the owner, picture, etc.) as in the case of  Alexander Cussons, Marjorie Inman, Mary Kaufman or I. Arnold Victor. But often my search  ends in a "brick wall". At the moment, I'm in particular interested in:
C. de Naray, Esq.
Mrs. A. M. Robertson
Cyril Green
V. J. Kleyman
Victor Weinberg
Harry Ross (I just have his portrait)
Mme. H. A. Goldstein (I found an address in Cham, Switzerland, in a old member's list)
B. C. Zacharias, Esq.
Alfred C. Rogers
Mrs. Booth
The Dodge Collection
Ph. de Tanner (I know there is a catalogue of his jade collection from 1925)

Any hint leading to biographical information, photo material, etc. is welcome.
With greetings from snowbound Switzerland

Georges
Report Spam   Logged

Social Buttons

Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 8783


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2018, 07:04:10 am »

Dear Georges,

      I'm not in any business, unless you see collecting as a 'business'.
About the names on your list, I've not got a lot of info.
      I know that Harry Ross and Cyril Green were both English Jews who collected in the 1950s to 1970s.
     I think the Dodge Collection was based in Michigan, USA, and owned by the people who produced the Dodge cars.

      Let me see if Gayle Gray Laverlochere, in Paris, has any info on the collectors on your list.
Best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

rosegl
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 67


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2018, 03:05:37 am »

Dear Joey,

thanks for your answer. Yes, I see collecting as a "business", not in a commercial sense (at least in my case), but as something that needs a lot of time and provides a lot of fun. How would you call it in English?
I knew about Cyril Green and Harry Ross (also because Moss described some of their bottles in one of his early Journals), but cannot trace them back.
Hope some other collector (maybe operating also as a dealer) will provide some information.
Best
Georges
Report Spam   Logged
Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 8783


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2018, 05:16:16 am »

Dear Georges,

      There is an English word, 'hobby', that I used to use to describe my collecting.

      But I realised that it is not strong enough, since I'm prepared to fly all over the world, searching for examples and visiting friends, like Giovanni in Italy; Samson, Geoff and Curt in Hong Kong; Tom and Pat in Bangkok; YT, Pin, Richard, Inn Bok, Denis Low and Quentin Loh in Singapore; Charll in northern CA; Steven in Plano TX; etc., etc.

    So I describe my collecting as a passion and as a bit of a disease, but a good disease, even though it can be communicable.  Shocked Roll Eyes Grin

    Best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Rube
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 523


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2018, 07:43:31 am »

Joey,
Excellent self diagnosis!

Cheers,
Rube
Report Spam   Logged

Rube, 4th Generation Collector

rosegl
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 67


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2018, 07:54:12 am »

Dear Georges,

      There is an English word, 'hobby', that I used to use to describe my collecting.

      But I realised that it is not strong enough, since I'm prepared to fly all over the world, searching for examples and visiting friends, like Giovanni in Italy; Samson, Geoff and Curt in Hong Kong; Tom and Pat in Bangkok; YT, Pin, Richard, Inn Bok, Denis Low and Quentin Loh in Singapore; Charll in northern CA; Steven in Plano TX; etc., etc.

    So I describe my collecting as a passion and as a bit of a disease, but a good disease, even though it can be communicable.  Shocked Roll Eyes Grin

    Best,
Joey
If that isn't a kind of "business"...

Best

Georges

 Cheesy
Report Spam   Logged
Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 8783


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2018, 08:18:56 am »

Dear Rube,
 
     Thanks! But like most Jews I like having a second opinion!  Roll Eyes Grin

Dear Georges,

    I think of a business as something like my family's real estate business: it gives me money to buy bottles etc., and makes a profit. Or a loss.

    But with snuff bottles, the 'profit' is in the knowledge, but also in my social life, interacting with people from all walks of life all around the world, whom I'd never have been blessed to meet, who have the same interest and enthusiasm.

    How would I have met Giovanni otherwise, and gotten to enjoy serious conversation, as well as seriously good home-made pizza, in Emilia Romagna?!
 
     And I could repeat this with almost every person I've corresponded with and shared knowledge with, on the Forum. Or at conventions of the ICSBS.
Collecting snuff bottles has seriously enriched my life, through the people I've met and become friendly with, and through the knowledge I've been blessed to amass. Besides any issue of monetary profit or loss.

    I think of my collecting as more of an education and introduction to parts of Society I'd not have ever discovered otherwise.

   Best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

samsonlzj
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 508


Beautiful things deserve appreciation


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2018, 06:37:35 pm »

Dear Joey,

I concur with you. Snuff bottle has really broadened my knowledge, my vision, my friend circle, my world and my life! Itís been a rich and fruitful two years of collecting experience in every way and I look forward to many more years to come!

Best,
Samson
Report Spam   Logged

Samson - a young new collector desiring knowledge
Fiveroosters
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2881



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2018, 10:21:37 am »

Dear Joey,
thank you for your nice words. Be sure the same is for me.
Like Samson, I fully agree with you, you are so right.
My passion about Chinese ceramics, which starts about 15 years ago, and then snuff bottles, has deeply modified my life. It brought knowledge about Chinese history and art that I would never have had otherwise. It widened my knowledge of technologies and Art, it allows me to be in contact and exchange information with interesting people from every place in the World; some of them with a larger culture than myself, who enriched me. And I got the pleasure to personally meet some of them.
Kind regards
 Giovanni
Report Spam   Logged

Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 8783


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2018, 11:18:10 am »

Dear Giovanni,

      My pleasure. And I didn't even have to mention all the delicious roast duck or goose I've eaten with you and with other friends on the Forum!  Roll Eyes Shocked Grin
     
     But seriously, I have learned so much from all my friends on the Forum and in the ICSBS, it has truly been a blessing in my life.

      Best to all,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

OIB
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 1091


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2018, 10:11:47 pm »

Dear Joey and Giovanni,

I share your experience.

As a Chinese, I learn a lot more by being on the Forum. The information and leads posted by fellow collectors and friends on the Forum always bring new insights on things related to Chinese culture, Chinese arts and crafts which I overlooked before. Your contributions on the technology and processes related to snuff bottles production and reproduction have sharpened my ability to discern and differentiate the different standards of bottles.

Inn Bok
Report Spam   Logged
Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 8783


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2018, 02:13:54 pm »

Dear Inn Bok,

     Please be sure that your contributions and those of other native Chinese members of the Forum, is equally important and supplies those of us not born into Chinese culture with a lot of context we'd not otherwise have realised.

    It is like the difference between my understanding of the minutiae of Jewish Ritual Laws dealing with food since I can remember [back to 2 1/2 years of age] and that of a well educated convert to Orthodox Judaism. The convert can learn the facts and details, but will never have the automatic understanding and response I have.

   In the same way, things that seem obvious to you might not even occur to me.
   Like my discussion about a bottle with a tree-rat subject with one of the collectors I visited on my East Asian tour a few weeks ago. A certain 'guru', whom we'll call 'Hugo Boss', had stated categorically that a bottle with a Tree-rat could not be 'right'.

   But the only reason we call a certain subject 'squirrels and grape vines' is because he and other Western 'gurus' were disgusted by 'rats'.  But there is the Year of the Rat, in East Asian culture. Rats are NOT a priori, a negative in East Asian Culture.

    So thank you to all Native Chinese members; you've helped me get a better grasp on Chinese art and the context in which these beautiful treasures were made and enjoyed.
Best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Pages: [1]
  Add poll  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal