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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
October 21, 2018, 03:12:08 am
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Yan Yutian ?

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Author Topic: Yan Yutian ?  (Read 1113 times)
forestman
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« on: November 30, 2017, 07:03:37 am »

Not sure about this one but it was cheap and even if not genuine I still like it.

It doesn't feel cold enough to be natural crystal and I don't see the normal polishing marks that I would expect from a glass bottle that would be old enough to be genuine or any significant wear marks. It is possible it could have been re-polished at some time but it looks too "clean" !

The picture of the base didn't work but it is more worked than normal. The base inside of the footrim is recessed slightly and has bevelled edges cutting deeper into the base recess.

Any comments welcomed.

Regards, Adrian.


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AntPeople
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2017, 09:16:02 am »

Yes .... itís a Yan YuTian

Quite special with the 2 goldfish by the side... although they seems to be a bit out of place but I like it.

Pin

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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2017, 09:40:34 am »

Adrian,
Nice one! I especially like landscaped side.
Cheers,
Rube
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Rube, 4th Generation Collector

forestman
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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2017, 10:16:08 am »

Thanks Pin and Rube.

Another ebay find. It was listed under "Other Chinese" as a Chinese/Japanese scent bottle which may be why I was the only bidder.

I know there are some faked Yan Yutian bottles out there, normally in plain glass bottles with Chinese hat stoppers. I may have one  Cry

Regards, Adrian.
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Steven
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2017, 01:46:12 pm »

Congratulation Adrian!!

It looks like  that you have got a steal over there.
"the harder you work the luckier you get" is a good saying.Smiley I used to work as hard as you, but not anymore.Smiley

Happy hunting!!

Steven
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2017, 04:06:15 pm »

Dear Adrian,
this escaped me, congratulations.
In fact the only IP bottles that I look at are those of YYT, because he is the only artist that I recognize.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2017, 05:40:50 pm »

Wonderful bottle Adrain, and nice job finding it !

I really like the old medicine bottles turned to IP's..  I like this shape much more than the taller ones he is known more to have painted.

Congratulations !
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Joey
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2017, 09:14:51 am »

Dear Adrian,
 
     I agree that it is a genuine Yan Yutian, and very nice. What height?
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

forestman
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2017, 11:32:45 am »

Thank you all for the comments.

Joey, the height is 62mm which seems a standard height and comes up quite often.

Regards, Adrian.
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2017, 04:33:09 pm »

Dear Adrian,

      Most of Yan Yutian's bottles come mainly in 2 size ranges - 57-67 mm and 76-96 mm.
I have one which, at 45 mm, is one of the smallest I know of; 11 in the 57-67 mm range; and one at 76 mm.

      The larger ones do not appeal to me. I had 5 at one stage, but gave 4 away.
The only reason I still have the 76 mm example, is because it is very well painted with a BAPO subject with 7 miniature pictures, though unsigned and undated.
       There are 3 vignettes on the front, 2 on the reverse, and one down each of the narrower sides. I write 'narrower', because the bottle's measurements are 76 mm tall, 55 mm wide and 30 mm deep. It is quite a big, hefty bottle... Shocked Grin

Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey

     
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

forestman
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« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2018, 04:08:50 am »

Dear Joey,

These are 2 recent purchases which could be Yan Yutian, part of a group of 4 which included a good agate and an overlay with an interesting rebus which I will post at some point.

These represent the big and the small. The rounded one is just 47mm, the panelled one 93mm. There is the remains of a seal on the smaller one which has lost some detail but the larger bottle is unsigned. They both have the "feel" of being by Yan Yutian but the subject matter is not uncommon and I imagine copied by numerous students.

Regards, Adrian.


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« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2018, 04:38:38 pm »

Dear Adrian,

     The second one looks like a typical Yan Yutian, but the first one, not so much.
I don't remember ever seeing a Yan Yutian bottle of this shape before.
But I could be wrong.
Steven, Pin, Charll, Pat... Anyone seen a YYT like the first example in Adrian's latest post?
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2018, 09:50:26 pm »

Thanks for sharing Adrian!

It seems that you have become an expert on YYT, you are right, both are YYT's examples.
I am with Joey on the bottle shape, but the brush strokes point to YYT, and  the seal on the bottle is a Yu tian seal.

Congratulations!

Steven
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« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2018, 01:41:20 am »

Dear Joey and Steven,

Thank you both for your input, it seems I have a small collection of YYT bottles now !

I am perplexed by unsigned bottles from well known artists. When it is clear that an artists signature is important enough for other artists to sign off as a well known artist then why would a well known artist leave a good example of their work unsigned as with the larger bottle I posted ?

Regards, Adrian.
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« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2018, 02:48:46 am »

Dear Adrian,

      You must think about how the bottles were produced and then sold.
Many bottles, possibly at times, most bottles produced by a specific artist, were produced on order.

     A customer/collector came in, negotiated a deal with the artist, based on material of blank [quartz/glass], and level of painting [superb quality down to standard quality], and the inscription desired [a personal dedication for a collector; a dedication to a superior if meant as a gift/bribe/etc.]. These would all have had inscriptions including the artist's name and a seal at the very least.
 
    But all artists at the start, and often later, had free time on their hands, and would produce 'sales stock', because it was their livelihood, and also in case a buyer walked in and needed a bottle 'in a hurry'. And the artist would have been aware that there were buyers at all levels in this situation, so he would have had bottles that were unsigned, at all levels.

    These bottles were left unsigned so that the inscription would look 'original' - ie., so it would NOT look like the artist had signed it in 1895, and added the rest of the inscription in 1899.

    So either these bottles were still unsigned [and thus unsold] by his passing, presumably in 1918, when his work stops; or possibly, Yan Yutian sold unsigned bottles or gave them as gifts to friends, and didn't bother to add an inscription.

    For a Bar Mitzva or Wedding gift, he'd have added the inscription; for lunch at a friend's, possibly not...  Roll Eyes Shocked Grin

    The reason I am conjecturing all this [and it IS conjecture on my part], is because I have a number of friends who are artists in Israel, the UK, Ireland and the PRC, and I've noticed that they all have paintings / snuff bottles / silver objects / bronzes / etc., that are finished but unsigned.
The silver is hallmarked, a legal requirement; but the artist then inscribes it with personal info [name/date/etc.] on the base with a  scribing tool.

Best,
Joey
   
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2018, 08:43:13 am »

Hey Everyone,

I just wanted to share what I think is an inside painted bottle by Yan Yutian. Signature isn't great, but I really like the side with bird. It measures 3 1/4" w/o stopper.
Adrian, as always, love jumping into your posts! 

Cheers,

Rube.


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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2018, 09:29:24 am »

Hi Rube,

On a first quick look it seems good to me. I like the side with the cat best, it looks pretty well fed which seems to be the way they portray them.

I saw that one come up and liked it but I have been very lucky in picking bottles up at very good prices so I am very mean with my bidding which I will have to address as I miss out on good bottles at reasonable prices. There has been little coming up recently so what has been good has been getting good prices.

I had hoped to get 5 IP bottles today that were part of a lot of 10 bottles in a regional auction. All 10 were in one picture so you couldn't make out any signatures but they looked like 5 good middle period bottles with 2 looking like Ye family but clearly others had checked signatures as they went for over 10 times low estimate at £5,400 hammer price. You can get lucky at these smaller auctions but not today for me.

Regards, Adrian.

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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2018, 09:54:05 am »

Adrian,

Wow!  I know the lot you speak of.  I did not bid.  But, it seems there are some nice bottles coming up for auction in the coming weeks.

Cheers,

Rube.
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« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2018, 12:36:42 pm »

Hi Rube,

The auction was over 2 hours away so I didn't view it although I was tempted but it would have been a wasted trip as I wouldn't have gone that high even if the artists were what I thought.

One could have been a Zhou Leyuan landscape, a middle period goldfish bottle although not a Ye Zhonsan style, the 2 Ye family or Ye himself bottles and another landscape bottle with one bit of a signature I could make out, the square with a cross in it that is the "Tian" part of Yan Yutian or Zhang BaoTian.

There seem to be some better bottles coming up as you say so I will check down the back of the sofa and see if I can be less stingy with my bidding.

Regards, Adrian.
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« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2018, 01:00:30 pm »

Dear Adrian,

     What do you get up to on that sofa?!
Most of my friends who check their sofa's back, do it to have cash to pay the pizza delivery!  Roll Eyes Shocked Grin

Best,
Joey
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