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October 23, 2017, 10:17:03 am
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Jet bottle

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Author Topic: Jet bottle  (Read 422 times)
Mat
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« on: September 28, 2017, 04:38:02 am »

Another bottle I found recently, with this one I am optimistic that it has some age. The material is jet, height is 6.5 cm with stopper. There is an inscription on the one side, but it is difficult to capture it in a photo. The bottle is very light. Any comments are highly appreciated!
Matthias


* SJ1.jpg (117.63 KB, 907x1134 - viewed 34 times.)

* SJ2.jpg (113.34 KB, 806x1134 - viewed 21 times.)

* SJ3.jpg (91.49 KB, 722x1134 - viewed 20 times.)

* SJ4.jpg (162.28 KB, 1505x1144 - viewed 16 times.)

* SJ5.jpg (182.43 KB, 1751x1144 - viewed 13 times.)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 04:42:26 am by Mat » Report Spam   Logged

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George
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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2017, 05:03:38 am »

An amazing jet bottle Matthias... Definitely etched with iron brush ..

It certainly has some age.. I would guess 1780 to 1840 ..

Lets see what others think..
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Wattana
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« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2017, 05:17:46 am »

Hi Mat,

This is a good bottle, and definitely has some age - I would date it to 1800-1880.

Unfortunately the iron brush work is not as good as it could be. It is a pity that it fills both of the main sides. In my opinion it lets the bottle down.

The inscription down the narrow side is an unusual feature, and appears more competently done than the 'artwork'. It's more normal to see an artistic decoration one main side, with an inscription on the reverse side.

Tom

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Tom
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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2017, 06:01:36 am »

The shape is very pleasing.  I do think it is an older bottle. Great find!
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Mat
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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2017, 08:54:37 am »

Thank you all, good to hear that it is an old bottle indeed!  Smiley
Regards, Matthias
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forestman
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« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2017, 02:14:17 pm »

Nice find Mathias.

I've yet to see a jet bottle come up but am tempted to go after one if I do.

Regards, Adrian.
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Joey
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« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2017, 01:36:31 am »

Dear Matthias,

       I agree with George and Tom (and most, actually) re.dating  of the bottle; but sadly, with Tom, re.decoration.

       The latter could simply be mediocre work contemporary with the bottle; or some dealer trying to raise the bottle's value in the 1960s to 1990s, when plain Jet bottles from the 18th & early 19th C. weren't valued as well as they are now.

      Although, saying that, I have a bottle, my 'Bling' bottle; it is an 18th C. Beijing Palace Workshops Jet, embellished with 3 shades of gold lacquer, mother of pearl and other materials.  I bought it in March of this year (2017), but a top UK dealer had given it to one of Japan's "Living National Treasures" in embellishment of Lacquer, to create his 'magic' on it in 2008.

      While offended that it was so drastically changed, I fell in love with it and bought it as a 60th birthday present to myself.  Roll Eyes Shocked Grin
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Wattana
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« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2017, 03:00:43 am »


       The latter could simply be mediocre work contemporary with the bottle; or some dealer trying to raise the bottle's value in the 1960s to 1990s, when plain Jet bottles from the 18th & early 19th C. weren't valued as well as they are now.


Dear Joey,

That thought had crossed my mind too. But then I re-looked at the subject matter and overall style of the decoration on Mat's bottle, and think the work is probably near contemporary with the bottle. I say "near contemporary" because I understand that drawing with the iron brush was a popular pursuit of literati as an outlet for their artistic aspirations, which was regrettably mediocre at times. The "blank" bottles would have been produced for that purpose, rather like the blanks created for inside painting. In fact I wonder if the undecorated jet bottles we treasure today are simply the ones which escaped the iron brush. 

Another reason for thinking the decoration is not modern is because the narrow side(s) have calligraphy. Nobody trying to raise the bottle's value in the 1960s to 1990s would have bothered covering both main sides AND the narrow sides too. Conversely, if the calligraphy is old (which to my eye appears so) why would the literatus place it on the narrow sides and leave the two main sides blank?

It is more likely that the literatus drew his scenes on the two main sides, then decided to inscribe a few lines of calligraphy, and used the only space left!

All best,
Tom
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Tom
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« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2017, 03:20:38 am »

Although, saying that, I have a bottle, my 'Bling' bottle; it is an 18th C. Beijing Palace Workshops Jet, embellished with 3 shades of gold lacquer, mother of pearl and other materials.  I bought it in March of this year (2017), but a top UK dealer had given it to one of Japan's "Living National Treasures" in embellishment of Lacquer, to create his 'magic' on it in 2008.

      While offended that it was so drastically changed, I fell in love with it and bought it as a 60th birthday present to myself.  Roll Eyes Shocked Grin

Dear Joey,

I remember that bottle vividly and I love it too! It's really a flawless beauty, and one of a kind present for 60th birthday!

Best,
Samson
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Samson - a young new collector desiring knowledge
Mat
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« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2017, 03:41:20 am »

Thank you, Joey, for your thoughts! I tend to agree with Tom that the decoration is older, it it quite worn down (I had to enhance the contrast of the picture to make it more "crisp", as is the inscription. Of course that could have been done recently to imitate natural wear, but I guess It would then have been done to a lesser degree (as it would have been done to increase the value of the bottle). And indeed, looking at literati paintings, not all of them were masters. This one seems to have had more talent in calligraphy...
Best regards, Matthias

P.S: I would love to see your "embellished" bottle, as I am also very interested in Japanese art!
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Wattana
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« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2017, 04:27:17 am »

Matthias,

Is there calligraphy on both narrow sides, or only on one?

It would be good if one of our Chinese members could help with the translation...

Tom
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Tom
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Mat
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« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2017, 04:42:44 am »

Tom, it is only on one side. I tried to take pictures of the whole inscription, but it is difficult because of the reflections. I will try again with different light. Of course it would be very interesting to know what is written on the bottle.
Matthias
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Mat
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« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2017, 04:50:32 am »

This is the best picture I have so far...


* INS1.jpg (270.39 KB, 1049x1682 - viewed 11 times.)

* INS2.jpg (305.42 KB, 1049x1682 - viewed 6 times.)
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Wattana
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« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2017, 05:15:47 am »

Thanks Matthias.

Another indicator that this was done by a true literatus. No ordinary craftsman would think of running script down one side only!

If you have a chance to photograph the bottle again, rub white chalk (or baby talc) into the incised calligraphy and 'paintings', gently wiping off the excess with a finger. Then everything will show up a lot clearer in the photos.

After taking your pictures the chalk can easily be removed with a soft dry toothbrush. 

Tom
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Tom
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Mat
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« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2017, 05:21:33 am »

Ok, I will try that tomorrow morning!
Regards, Matthias
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Joey
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« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2017, 05:35:41 am »

Dear Tom,

      Very good arguments. I'm convinced.

Dear Matthias,

    It is lot 386 in Christie's NY sale of 15.March 2017, R. & C. Barron collection Part IV. You can see it on the internet (I don't know how to 'link' it.)

Dear Samson,

     Thank you.

Best to all,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2017, 05:42:02 am »


Dear Tom,
      Very good arguments. I'm convinced.


Dear Joey,

That's made my day....!   Smiley   Smiley   Smiley

Best,
Tom
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Tom
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Mat
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« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2017, 09:31:48 am »

It is lot 386 in Christie's NY sale of 15.March 2017, R. & C. Barron collection Part IV. You can see it on the internet (I don't know how to 'link' it.)

Joey, what a fantastic bottle, a perfect combination of Chinese and Japanese art.
Matthias
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Steven
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« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2017, 02:36:07 pm »

Dear Mat,

Beautiful bottle! I like the everything of the bottle, the material,the shape and the carving. Thanks for sharing!

Here I am sharing joey's bottle which I should have done earlier. I am lucky that I have a chance to handle the bottle for a couple of weeks before joey visited me last time.

Gorgeous bottle.  the embellishment was done by TOMIZO SARATANI.

Enjoy!

Steven


* Jet_1l.jpg (266.7 KB, 1000x1312 - viewed 21 times.)

* Jet_2l.jpg (363.91 KB, 1000x1284 - viewed 23 times.)
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« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2017, 02:38:26 pm »

Dear Mat,

I was trying to make out the inscription for you, but the reflections bothers me, if you can have the better photo, I can make it out for you.

Best,

Steven
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