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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
July 21, 2018, 05:46:28 pm
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Double Overlay - Your Opinion Please

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Author Topic: Double Overlay - Your Opinion Please  (Read 144 times)
Mat
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« on: September 27, 2017, 03:32:59 am »

What do you think, is this one old or modern? Height with stopper is 7.2 cm.
Thank you,
Matthias


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Jungle Jas
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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2017, 08:10:27 am »

My opinion for what its worth, and I'm no expert, is that it is new. Only for the reason is, I can not see any signs of were. Even the couple of small chips look crisp and new.

Regards Jason.
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Mat
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2017, 08:51:43 am »

Thank you Jason, yes, there are only a few chips, but, in my experience (with 18th c European glass, not snuff bottles) chips on glass tend to remain crisp, as it is a fairly hard material. So I am not sure if that is a criterion for judging the age of this bottle. However I am not an expert either...
Regards,
Matthias
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forestman
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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2017, 09:13:10 am »

Hi Matthias,

My feeling is newer rather than older. The way the foot is formed in part out of the base glass layer is one reason.

Regards, Adrian.
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Mat
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2017, 09:30:17 am »

Thank you Adrian,
could you explain the your observations on the footrim, please? (I am just trying to learn). Here is just a random example of a footrim that does look similar in my opinion, even if the bottle is very different... http://www.e-yaji.com/auction_images/zoom/Bloch_sale_two/Lot_73_f.html . This one has some resemblance, too, or am I wrong? http://www.e-yaji.com/auction_images/zoom/Bloch_8/Lot%2059.html#
Regards, Matthias
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forestman
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« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2017, 10:03:10 am »

Hi Matthias,

Sorry, I didn't explain it very well.

If you look at the bottle face on you see the inset foot of the bottle is formed in part out of the base layer of white. You see it to a lesser degree on some overlay bottles, Yangzhou ones for example, but it is more pronounced on your bottle.

The footrim is nicely done and some aspects of the overall carving are as well but there are other bits that are a bit sloppy which I feel would not have passed QC in the past.

Regards, Adrian.
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Mat
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« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2017, 10:27:48 am »

Thank you again, Adrian, I see now what you say, indeed I also cannot find other old bottles with similar footrim...
Regards,
Matthias
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Rube
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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2017, 08:31:27 pm »

Matthias,
Pretty bottle!
I can't tell by your pic, but one clue is the base, is it flat or convex? Convex would possibly indicate age.

Cheers,
Rube
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Rube, 4th Generation Collector

forestman
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2017, 02:31:01 am »

Hi Rube,

That's something I read somewhere on the forum when I joined but my ever growing collection of overlays shows it isn't something to rely on. I have old with flat bases and new with curved ones.

I think it was felt that on newer bottles it is easier to inset a flat base than take the overlay back to follow the curve of the bottle and that may be the case on lower quality ones but not on the better ones. But on old bottles a flat base can be found on very good bottles.

Regards, Adrian.
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Mat
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2017, 04:32:24 am »

The bottom of this bottle is flat. In the end I decided to return this one to the seller, as I guess that it is indeed a new one, especially regarding Adrian's observations regarding the quality of the carving...
Thank you all,
Matthias
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joearp
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2017, 06:15:07 am »

I think you will be happy you did but the value is in what you have learned.  Happy snuff bottle hunting.
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Joey
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« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2017, 01:43:21 am »

Dear Matthias,

     I agree with Jo.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Mat
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« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2017, 03:53:13 am »

Thank you Jo, it is a long learning process with snuff bottles! And thank you for confirming, Joey!  Smiley
Regards, Matthias
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