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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
June 21, 2018, 04:39:16 pm
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I know we all miss out on a bottle from time to time, but...

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Author Topic: I know we all miss out on a bottle from time to time, but...  (Read 454 times)
Joey
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« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2017, 01:28:54 pm »

Dear George,

     I agree with you. If the bottles  that I've seen that were falsely signed, had been signed by their actual artists, I would also be buying them.

      It is my opinion that the fake marks are being ordered so that dishonest dealer can try to pass them off as genuine 'Ding' etc.
Sad,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

George
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« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2017, 02:57:35 pm »

Dear George,


      It is my opinion that the fake marks are being ordered so that dishonest dealer can try to pass them off as genuine 'Ding' etc.
Sad,
Joey

That makes the seller a complete idiot with absolutely no knowledge of MP snuff bottles and artists.. They are almost always falsely signed Erzhong or Shaoxuan... Hard to understand how folks are looking at these obvious modern shaped bottles and believe them to be authentic..

I have got caught up in a few MP bottles, but at least they had some of the characteristics of a true MP bottle/artists..

Ok, I am done ranting... 
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Joey
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« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2017, 10:06:51 pm »

Dear George,

      You have been interested in IPSBs now for what? 7 years?
When you first started, could you have told the difference?
'Newbies' can be easily fooled. Especially when they want to believe that
They are 'experts' after a month or two of collecting, but still don't really know what they are doing. And that is understandable.
      What bothers me, is when, after buying lots of crap in a month or two, like 120+ bottles, the 'newbie' starts spouting BS on this, or another site, like Collecting Weekly, as if she is a 'real' expert.  Angry
      When I spout BS, at least it is backed up by almost 48 years of study... Roll Eyes  Grin
And end of my rant,
Best,
Joey
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George
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« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2017, 10:33:15 pm »

It is just so disturbing over all as M and VM artists and the art as a whole is concerned.

I have not been much involved with modern works.. But am trying to pay closer attention .. Always giving thought to how in the world this forum might be used as a tool for these artist in an effort to promote their work directly.. It is a hurdle , that has been difficult to figure out..

It is quite confusing why an artist with an obvious IP talent, and especially with calligraphy that they would be, I think "coaxed" into falsely signing..

The whole idea is so disrespectful to the art, and equally to the artist.. I can't help but be reminded of a story Peter shared with me during a past convention.. Where these talented and upcoming artist were seated in the very back of the room.. Never once acknowledged, and shuffled out the back door to a waiting bus after certain ICSBS heads gave speeches at the podium..

It is so sad to see what is an obvious abuse of their talents for profit..

Such a sour taste it leaves.. Especially at a time when again I find myself looking closer at these artists.. Not that I have any significant amount of money to spend on them, but still..... 

One thing for absolute sure.. I have made a commitment to never purchase a VM piece unless purchased or commissioned directly through folks like Peter, Pin, Steven, and others. 

If the ICSBS had any true desire to be a pillar within our collecting community, they would do everything they could to put a stop to this, and as well the greedy middle men profiting from these practices..

I think the future of the art is in great jeopardy..
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Rube
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« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2017, 05:57:11 am »

George,

Just a thought, is it possible that these bottles are a scam? By that I mean, not done by hand?
The calligraphy looks great to me, but so did those portraiture bottles that were too good to be true. If they can do it with those ultra realistic bottles, why can't they with calligraphy and a color shaded background?

Disturbed either way,
Rube.
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George
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« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2017, 06:54:08 am »

George,

Just a thought, is it possible that these bottles are a scam? By that I mean, not done by hand?
The calligraphy looks great to me, but so did those portraiture bottles that were too good to be true. If they can do it with those ultra realistic bottles, why can't they with calligraphy and a color shaded background?

Disturbed either way,
Rube.

Entirely possible Rube... I have always discarded possibly purchasing any and all Modern and Contemporary bottle with brown, or yellow backgrounds for just this reason.. I think paintings with these backgrounds add to the suspicion.

I let myself put that aside with this first bottle I bid on solely because of the quality of calligraphy. Plus, I thought the additional and unique touch of the gold spots meant to imitate parchments of calligraphy was something only a knowledgeable calligrapher would think to add. Thinking that the brown background was actually necessary in this case to represent parchment. Now I am not so sure... It may well simply be a key clue to some kind of photo faking/enhancement process.

Now with the second similar bottle popping up, that to raises more of a red flag, and may well be browned as part of the process.

So yes.... I think it quite possible indeed..

Good thought Rube !



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forestman
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« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2017, 07:37:21 am »

When I first joined the forum I posted a bottle with calligraphy on the reverse which was a Ma Shaoxian fake with well rendered and real calligraphy which I found out as I inadvertently smudged the calligraphy when cleaning out the fake snuff residue. I said at the time it was a shame that artists that were clearly talented resorted to faking signatures.

The same seller has just listed a very expensive embellished jade bottle although the embellishing looks like plastic to me.

Regards, Adrian.
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« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2017, 01:05:59 pm »



The same seller has just listed a very expensive embellished jade bottle although the embellishing looks like plastic to me.

Regards, Adrian.

I saw that ..
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« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2017, 08:35:55 am »

Is that the bottle you're discussing? It's now on offer online, current bid $ 24.50. It seems definitely modern, but is it really handpainted?

Georges


* calligraphy 2.jpg (73.41 KB, 800x800 - viewed 22 times.)
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Jungle Jas
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« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2017, 11:02:02 am »

 It looks to good to me to be done by a photographic method, and the gold spots are not in the same position on both bottles. Surely they would be if a photographic method were  used. Unless they were painted by hand afterwards, but why would you do that?

 Regards Jason.
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« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2017, 12:43:07 am »

I think your right Jason !
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forestman
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« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2017, 03:52:04 am »

Hi George,

I've been kicking myself since about 3.30AM Sunday morning which was when an auction on ebay ended for a bottle I wished I had bid more for ended. Had it not ended in the middle of the night I would have bid more but it's gone now and it was a beauty and unusual and unlike any I had seen before so deserved me being less of a tight wad  Cry

Any chance of a forum therapist to help members cope with these missed opportunities ?

Regards, Adrian.
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George
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« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2017, 07:28:05 am »



Any chance of a forum therapist to help members cope with these missed opportunities ?

Regards, Adrian.

So sorry Adrian... I feel your pain... !   I think the only real therapy is being able to vent here about it  Cheesy
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« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2017, 09:54:47 am »

Dear Adrian,

Here on the forum, you can expect all of us to be empathetic towards what you've just been through and it happened to all of us at some point in our collecting life, missing something we desperately wanted. I think it's best for us to bear in mind that the SB art has come a long way since the beginning of Qing in 1644 and over the span of few hundred years countless bottles have been created. While there are many mediocre ones, there are also many exquisite examples. So just keep hoping that one of more of those exquisite bottles that please you would at some point find their way to you in a way that would surprise you!

I tend to believe somehow, the more you wish and hope for the good things, the more likely they will happen... Wink

Best,
Samson
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Samson - a young new collector desiring knowledge
forestman
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« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2017, 10:38:13 am »

I bought some wine with the money I saved from not buying the snuff bottle.

Wine is no substitute for snuff bottles but it helps you get over the snuff bottles you miss out on  Smiley

Regards, Adrian.
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Steven
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« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2017, 11:07:27 am »

I bought some wine with the money I saved from not buying the snuff bottle.

Wine is no substitute for snuff bottles but it helps you get over the snuff bottles you miss out on  Smiley

Regards, Adrian.

It sounds like that you already found yourself a good therapist. Wink

Steven
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Wattana
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« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2017, 12:51:59 am »

Substituting one kind of bottle for another.....
A sound course of therapy!
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Tom
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« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2017, 07:36:36 pm »

Quote
Substituting one kind of bottle for another.....
A sound course of therapy!

Nice retort Tom.  This recent line of conversations by all involved has made my evening.  Thanks for the good laugh guys.  Cheesy  Cheesy   

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

Rube
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« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2018, 08:25:56 am »

All,

This bottle kinda reminds me of the one George posted!

https://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/rare-tabatiere-en-verre-peint-signee-ding-6148435-details.aspx?from=searchresults&intObjectID=6148435&sid=de033966-f980-4a76-9e4b-b51ec10255ba

Cheers,

Rube.
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forestman
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« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2018, 09:28:51 am »

Good old Christies, only 121 years wrong on the date  Cheesy
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