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January 20, 2018, 11:14:21 am
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porcelain squirrel moulded snuff bottle

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Author Topic: porcelain squirrel moulded snuff bottle  (Read 86 times)
rosegl
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« on: September 04, 2017, 03:16:47 pm »

Good evening everybody,
I do have a problem or rather a guessing game in relation with porcelain squirrel moulded snuff bottles.
Three times in the last couple of years, a moulded squirrel (most probably always the same one) appeared at auctions in East Dennis (2014, passed), Cologne (2016, 600 ) and Vienna (2017, abt 1600 $). The dating varies a bit from 19th Century over 1850-1900 to 18th/19th century. Twice, in 2016 and 2017, a provenance from Robert Kleiner is claimed. The squirrel shows a high grade of sophistication and detail to fur, paws and head; the body seems bisque fired, the  leaves and grapes are glazed in various colors.
In the internet, I found a further item from the same mould, but the body glazed in thick blue colour, offered at auction in East Sussex (2014, passed), dated 1780-1820.
However recently a bottle that seems from the same mould but is evidently modern, glazed, with less details incised, appeared from a Chinese dealer on ebay (2017, 20 $).
Now my question: is it possible that modern bottles are reproducing elder moulds? What might the date range of the illustrated bottles be?
I'm trying to learn and would appreciate all comments and guesses.
Thanks in advance
Georges

* squirrels.pdf (270.86 KB - downloaded 8 times.)
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Joey
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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2017, 04:27:05 pm »

Dear Georges,

      DEFINITELY. I understand that genuine molded porcelain snuff bottles have been used to make latex molds, which are then used to make modern copies.
Be careful.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

rosegl
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2017, 03:39:04 am »

Dear Joey,

thanks for your answer. Of course, the question remains open which one(s) of the series (if any) could be original or copies respectively.
Do you know if there is any possibility to check whether the provenance from Robert Kleiner is accurate or not?

Regards

Georges
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Joey
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« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2017, 06:53:51 am »

Dear Georges,

   I'm seeing his widow and daughter at a wedding in 3 hrs., but they'd not know.
I will ask some of his colleagues (Clare Chu from Asian Art Studio in LA and Susan Page from Robert Hall). Possibly they can help.
Please send me any info you have, in a private message. Or here.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

rosegl
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« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2017, 07:15:07 am »

thanks for your help, Joey. What I have are links to the webpages of the two auction houses:
http://katalog.van-ham.com/de/i/11729339/p/8/
http://www.zacke.at/de/sammlung/20376/fine-chinese-snuff-bottles-auction-june-24th-2-pm-cet
That's all I have. Zacke told me they copied the provenance from Van Ham that seemed reliable to them.

Best

Georges
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rosegl
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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2017, 08:05:50 am »

Joey, I'm adding a picture of the Van Ham squirrel. Any chance to get information about its provenance?
Best
Georges


* Squirrel Van Ham.jpg (33.47 KB, 451x700 - viewed 9 times.)
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Joey
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« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2017, 01:31:09 pm »

Dear Georges,

     I like the bottle! I'm not familiar with it from before, but will ask those who might be familiar with R. Kleiner's former stock.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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