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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
October 23, 2018, 03:02:56 am
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Chinese or japanese bone bottle with carved motif and poem

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Author Topic: Chinese or japanese bone bottle with carved motif and poem  (Read 111 times)
arnebraat
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« on: August 26, 2017, 02:51:36 am »

I am not sure about this, but I think it is bone even if it has not become yellowish like I have seen many of on the internet. As a novice I could not tell if it is chinese or japanese. I spotted this in a typical "combo" store in Chinatown in Singapore around year 2000. All kind of tourist items were at display in shelfs, but the vintage ones were kept in glassdoor cabinets. I just like the appearance. It is only 6,5 cm tall. It looks classic in a way, and the carving work is artistic. I would like to know how old it is, and of course also what the poem is about.
Best regards
Arne


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« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 03:43:26 am by arnebraat » Report Spam   Logged

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Jungle Jas
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2017, 11:23:25 am »

Hi Arne, any chance of looking at the bottom of the foot?

Regards Jason.
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arnebraat
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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2017, 11:50:20 am »

Hi Jason, I didn't bother to take a pic of the bottom because I didn't think it is marked. But when I enlarged this pic, a very worn shadow is visible. Could it have been a mark?
Best regards
Arne


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Joey
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2017, 02:03:49 pm »

Dear Arne,
 
     It is Ivory, NOT Bone - if you look at the mouth and the shoulders, you should see the 'cross-hatching' that proves Ivory. Bone has one direction of grain; Ivory, two; Where they cross, there is 'cross-hatching'.

     While your photography is really bad, I can identify the 'cross-hatching' (or at least, think I can. Roll Eyes Grin).

    It is from  ca. 1950-1976 and either from the PRC (after 1949), or from Kyoto, Japan (1953-1976). There were workshops doing both polychrome painted carved Ivory and this type of incised and inked Ivory snuff bottles in Kyoto. The renewal of traditional Chinese handicrafts started a few years before the Hundred Flowers Campaign in 1956.

    When the USA started boycotting products from the PRC in the early 1950s, a US buyer who had been importing 'Oriental' Arts & Crafts from China and Japan, got his Japanese suppliers to produce snuff bottles of this type, to replace his Chinese suppliers who he could not buy from.

    If it has a poem (I must admit I didn't look carefully at the bottle, except to check the grain directions), and someone can translate it, and it's a couplet or poem by Mao Zedong, there is a good chance it is Chinese, and from ca. 1966-1976.

Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

arnebraat
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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2017, 02:21:16 pm »

Dear Joey,
Thank you so much for your review. This is very meanigfull to me, to get knowledge about items I have bought instead of modern sovenirs.
Best regards
Arne
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George
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2017, 02:54:54 pm »

I am not seeing any cross hatching...
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arnebraat
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2017, 03:29:40 pm »

What kind of photo should I provide to settle this?
Arne
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Joey
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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2017, 03:31:09 pm »

Dear George,

      I thought the dark areas on the mouth and shoulders were cross-hatching.
Then I looked at the front and reverse, and noticed something I'd not seen before - the seam between the shoulders and the body of the bottle and then another seam between the base and the bottom of the body. This could suggest that it is a section of bone, capped on each end with a solid piece, the top carved as shoulders, and neck; the bottom carved as a base.

     So I looked again at what I thought was 'cross-hatching', and agree with you that there might be no cross-hatching. And then I looked hard at the calligraphy, for the first time. It is nowhere near the quality of the 1950-1970s bottles. It is as bad as most of the modern IPSB artists' calligraphy (I'm obviously not referring here to Li Ruchen, Wang Tiemin, or the artists like them who specialise and work hard on calligraphy).

    So Arne, sorry, but please disregard my prior post.  Embarrassed Roll Eyes Wink
Although I have seen Ivory SBs made in this same way, I think this is later, ca. 1980-six months before you bought it.  Roll Eyes Grin Sorry. I was really hoping to find at least a 'vintage' SB in your collection, if not an antique.
Best,
Joey
Because of the shape, and the fact that
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Joey
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2017, 03:38:51 pm »

Dear Arne,

     If we had a very clear  photo of the neck & shoulders, where I thought I identified 'cross-hatching' (I now learn that these are called 'Shreger lines'), and they were, that would prove that at least the top piece is ivory.
But you'd need to find such 'Shreger lines' on all three pieces. But if you found on one, good chance that all three might have them. Good Luck.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

arnebraat
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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2017, 08:22:52 am »

Now I have learnt from the internet what to look for when it comes to Schreger Lines. I have examined the bottle through a magnifying glass, but see no other traces than at the very top of the neck. And the pattern is not very clear, but maybe you both could get an opinion from this posted pic. My camera is not that good, so the pic is not very clear.
Best regards
Arne


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Joey
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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2017, 12:20:18 pm »

Dear Arne,

      Good News/Bad News:

Good News: It is not ivory, since there is no cross-hatching. So you've not broken any CITES laws.
Bad News: It is not ivory. It was made from 3 pieces of bone,  2 solid pieces, top and bottom, and a piece of hollow bone in the middle. Could be camel bone or cow bone.
Dating is probably ca. 1980-6  months before you bought it.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

arnebraat
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« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2017, 12:38:39 pm »

Dear Joey,

Thank you for your review. I do have a couple of more snuff bottles, also bought in Singapore- But none were actually expensive. I'll post one and one later. :-)
Best regards
Arne
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« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2017, 01:12:24 pm »

Dear Arne,

     The International Chinese Snuff Bottle Society is having its annual convention in London this year, at the Corinthia Hotel near Whitehall, 31.Oct.-4.Nov.
     There will be a number of Forum members attending, as well; myself (Israel), Luke (UK), Adrian (UK), Jo (USA), and possibly Charll (USA), Richard (Singapore), YT (Singapore), and  Curt (HK).
If you  are interested, it should be quite a good convention (they usually are).
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

arnebraat
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« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2017, 01:27:42 pm »

Thank you for the information.
Best regards
Arne
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