General information about the Site

This snuff bottle community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert collectors. Topics are intended to cover all aspects and types of bottle collecting. To include trials, tribulations, evaluating, identifying, researching, appraisals, and much more.

Photobucket

Among other things, donations help keep the forum free from Google type advertisements, and also make it possible to purchases additional photo hosting MB space.

Forum Bottle in the Spotlight

Steven shared this beautiful Ma Shaoxian bottle

Gotheborg's Marks On Chinese Porcelain

Photobucket

Snuff Bottle Collector

The International Chinese Snuff Bottle Society


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
October 17, 2017, 01:36:11 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Downloads Gallery Staff List Login Register  

An agate bottle from Australia

Pages: 1 [2]
  Add poll  |  Print  
Author Topic: An agate bottle from Australia  (Read 243 times)
Boletus
Newbie
*
Posts: 28


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2017, 03:05:54 am »

Dear Giovanni, Charll and George,

I am so happy that you enjoyed the story.
It was a labour of love for this forum and its members (yes Giovanni, I am also a writer but thanks for giving me the idea!) that I wish will encourage other members to share their adventures with all of us.
Best regards
Frank
Report Spam   Logged

Frank
Fiveroosters
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2762



View Profile
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2017, 04:21:13 am »

Dear Frank,
I must say that what you have written is mainly an excellent introduction of yourself, and how you d start to collect bottles.
I too did start almost the same way.
I think that I said in my introduction here on this Forum that I bought my first snuff bottle many years ago, and it has been my first Chinese piece ever. Then, after many years, I did start to collect Chinese ceramics and only a few years ago I start to collect snuff bottles.
Kind regards
Giovanni
Report Spam   Logged

Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 8453


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2017, 05:27:09 am »

Dear Frank,

     PLease don't misunderstand. I liked the story, but the sections where the protagonist jokes with the shop owner, while very possibly accurate, for me detracted from the story.

    I was very good friends with Anne McCaffrey, the well known Science Fiction author, who lived in Ireland. In 1993, I escorted her to a Sci-Fi Writers' Convention in Pine Mountain, GA, as her 'security'. In reality, I was just part of the entourage, though I did stop one crazy woman who had a large cloth-shears and who was sort of threatening [you had to be there]. But the State Police did come and take her away; and Anne (and others) thanked me profusely.

   At one seminar, Anne recommended to an aspiring author, "Edit, Dear! And then have someone whose opinion you respect, edit it for you, removing, at least temporarily, parts they deem don't ring true".

    But most of the story did ring true, and I enjoyed reading it. Thank you.

   Re.Mana; I understood from Maoris, Hawaiians and Samoans of my acquaintance, that 'Mana' was a Polynesian concept, meaning 'life energy'; and that Mana is transferred from a human being to anything that they make or use or repair; not just to fetishes. I have a Maori fish-hook, made by the uncle of a friend, and given to me by the friend with his and his uncle's Mana. It is meant to protect me from sharks while swimming in the ocean, since the uncle is from the shark 'clan' or 'totem'. And in effect it is a fetish. 

   I trust in The G-D of Israel to Protect me; moreover, i know that sharks are inherently cannibalistic, so if his Mana is related to that of the shark, it should not have much power to dissuade an attack, unless he was a bigger shark than the one or ones with the sharp teeth, swimming towards me!  Roll Eyes Cheesy

   But I have over 130 modern turned Hawaiian hardwood Umeke, and they are simply beautiful vessels. But believed to hold the Mana of the maker, and mine as well, from my ownership and use of them. But that is the Polynesian understanding. I've no knowledge of any other Culture's belief in it. I think I understand that the Chinese concept of Qi, is to be understood in the same way, but may be mistaken.

Best,
Joey
 

Dear Rube,

thanks for that, I'm glad you liked it!
Cheers
Frank

Dear Joey,

I'm sorry you didn't like it more, but like you say, to each his own.
Thanks for reading it!

Actually, for the sake of precision, "mana" has a very specific meaning in the world of tribal art (too long and too specific to enter that conversation here on this forum) which obviously changes angle from the different areas of the world (Africa has one, which is different from Oceanic, PNG, Australia etcetera) not to mention the "meaning" it could take outside of "tribal context". Objects with mana are not limited to those with an infused energy by the carver (like African fetish figures) but are especially those that "receive" that power through the many years of handling and tribal life usage. It's complicated... and that's another story!
Cheers and thanks
Frank
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Fiveroosters
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2762



View Profile
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2017, 12:27:04 pm »

Dear Joey,
last night I said here that today I was going to the flea market where you bought the page turner.
You can't believe what a fine overlay snuff bottle I found there, for a few bucks.
To tell the story "à la Frank" Grin:
I need near field glasses to read and see fine details. I have them but often I don't carry them with me. As I saw the bottle, I noted that it was superbly carved.
Then I did ask the seller to inspect it in hands, and did ask the price. As said, a few bucks. By examining the bottle, I didn't see any wear mark at all, the bottle looks brand new.
I was surprised because I never saw a such fine brand-new bottle. Then I told the seller that it was a new bottle and he answered "I know, if it were old its value would be 3,000 euro".
So, I was going to let it go, but then, again considering the very nice carving, and for that low price, I decided to buy it anyway, thinking in showing it in a thread here on the Forum.
While driving back home, I was thinking that I would write a post, titled "Beware!", for my friends here to be aware of how good the fakers are now.
But once at home, I did wear the proper glasses and inspected the bottle under a proper light: boys, I couldn't believe at my eyes!! I almost dismayed in thinking that for pure chance I did not pass the bottle.
It is no doubt one of my genuine old best overlay carved bottle, if not the really best. It has a fine wear on every right place, the more protruded ones. Even now, I almost can’t believe of how I have been lucky.
I will post it on the next days.
Kind regards
Giovanni
Report Spam   Logged

Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 8453


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2017, 05:59:08 pm »

Dear Giovanni,

    Congratulations! That's wonderful news.
I look forward to seeing it, your other new acquisitions, and Frank's bottles, in just over a month.
 
Best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 10390



View Profile WWW
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2017, 07:30:24 pm »

Great story Giovanni ! 
Report Spam   Logged

Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 8453


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2017, 06:04:55 am »

Dear Giovanni,

       Indeed, a wonderful story. It is almost the mirror opposite of what happened to me with Peter Lee in Hong Kong in Nov.1981.
He offered me a superb bottle, ruby red overlay on 'camphor'/'snowflake' glass. It was of a continuous landscape with a river, truly some of the best carving I'd ever seen, and perfectly polished background surface. Mr. Lee told me that it was 18th C. Palace Workshops, and the colour and quality bore that out.

      But the modern power station and power lines, carved as part of the design, were somehow at odds with the 18th C. dating. I guess I'm just  too suspicious.  Roll Eyes Shocked Grin  The price was US$1,800 and I'd have gladly paid it for a genuine 18th C. bottle of that quality in 1981. When I pointed out the 20th C. technology displayed on the bottle, Mr. Lee hurriedly put it away.

     Stupidly, I did not think it through, or I'd have kept my mouth shut, and grabbed the bottle. Genuine Cultural Revolution period bottles in overlay glass are extremely rare - 3-5 are known and they were personally commissioned by Chairman Mao and made using genuine 18th C. 'blanks' found in the Palace storerooms - bottles made to be carved, but for whatever reason never carved at the time they were made.

    There were also a few greyish brown Chalcedony bottles made for Mao, with delicate floral designs and inscribed with poems and sayings by Chairman Mao - my good friend Bernie Wald has one. Again, there are 3-5 of these known. It's believed that all these bottles were made to be presented as gifts to special 'foreign friends' of China.

   So you were sold an old bottle as new for a low price; whereas I was offered a relatively 'new' bottle (5-8 years old when offered to me), at what I thought a high price for a 'fake' (modern bottle trying to pass as 18th C.), but in reality a rare CR subject bottle.

   Best,
joey
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 06:01:08 pm by Joey » Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Fiveroosters
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2762



View Profile
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2017, 06:26:20 am »

Dear Joey,
quite interesting! Thank you.
But I am wondering why are you sceptic about the presence of electric power lines in the 18th century, since there are people who believe that the Pyramids were built by extraterrestrials, or that there are space shuttles illustrated in Maya’s decoration. Smiley

Kind regards
Giovanni
Report Spam   Logged

Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 8453


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2017, 06:08:44 pm »

Dear Giovanni,

     Please re-read the line: "  I guess I'm just  too suspicious.  Roll Eyes Shocked Grin  ".   Grin




      But the modern power station and power lines, carved as part of the design, were somehow at odds with the 18th C. dating. I guess I'm just  too suspicious.  Roll Eyes Shocked Grin  The price was US$1,800 and I'd have gladly paid it for a genuine 18th C. bottle of that quality in 1981. When I pointed out the 20th C. technology displayed on the bottle, Mr. Lee hurriedly put it away.

    
   Best,
joey

    Having said that, what you DON'T believe all that stuff? Who do you think you are?
 Next you will be saying that Global Warming is a myth!
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Wattana
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 5022



View Profile
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2017, 09:01:14 pm »


 Next you will be saying that Global Warming is a myth!


No myth. Hear is incontrovertible proof that global warming really does exist !!!


* globalwarming1.png (459.45 KB, 653x366 - viewed 16 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Tom
Collecting since 1972

Pat - 查尚杰
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 3394


Zha Shang Jie 查尚杰


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2017, 10:34:56 pm »

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Tongue
Report Spam   Logged

Best Regards

Pat
查尚杰
Zha Shang Jie
Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 8453


View Profile
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2017, 08:22:04 am »

Doesn't go far back enough! Let's see from the Roman period. Or from the Medieval Warm period (ca.950-1450), when the global temperatures were much higher than today!  Wink

   And I can show the opposite!
19th C. Moslem women in Malaysia who wore skirts but no tops (there are drawings by Victorian English women of 1/2 naked Moslem women outside a mosque, breast-feeding in public) to Chadors in 1980s Iran and Burqas in 2010 London!  Shocked Grin

Besides, that can photo can just show the deterioration in moral behavior over the same period...
Best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Pages: 1 [2]
  Add poll  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal